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Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 15

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 13/08/2020 21:37

Welcome to thread 15 of the daily updates

Resource links:

Uk dashboard deaths, cases, hospitals, tests - 4 nations, LAs, English regions
Slides & data UK govt pressers
UK added daily by PHE & DHSC
PHE Surveillance report infections & watchlists every Thursday with sep. infographic
ONS England infection surveillance report
ONS UK death stats each Tuesday
ECDC rolling 14-day incidence EEA & UK
Daily ECDC country detail UK
Worldometer UK page
Plot FT graphs compare countries deaths, cases, raw / million pop
Covidly.com world summary & graphs
Plot COVID Graphs Our World in Data test positivity etc

We welcome factual, data driven, and civil discussions from all contributors 📈 📉 📊 👍

OP posts:
Thread gallery
104
MarcelineMissouri · 23/08/2020 19:51

Looks like total cases for today is actually 1160 - the initial number given didn’t include 119 cases from NI.

PrayingandHoping · 23/08/2020 20:03

@MRex that seems bonkers. Although not as bonkers as the Welsh admission counting! That's bonkers to a whole new level

PatriciaHolm · 23/08/2020 20:15

According to the notes for the Scottish data "The number of confirmed cases may include people who are in hospital for other reasons but have previously tested positive for COVID-19."

So yes, it would appear it includes people with a positive test but who are not in hospital for CV!

alreadytaken · 23/08/2020 20:32

Finland locked down, it's economy is doing better than Sweden's yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/finnish_economy_emerged_from_corona_spring_as_eu_winner_most_economists_say_worst_is_over/11507127

Whattodowithaminute · 23/08/2020 20:33

What’s the perspective on Germany numbers bigchoc and others? Are the increasing numbers being reported real or exaggerated or increased testing?

TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair · 23/08/2020 21:08

Has this made it on here yet? Apologies if so

www.gov.uk/government/news/study-finds-very-low-numbers-of-covid-19-outbreaks-in-schools?utm_source=01ce0967-35e6-401b-92c7-8d5c486b1fe3&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate

PHE found very low numbers of virus outbreaks in school in June. There were 67 single cases and 1,646,000 kids in school then. I'd say that's really positive news.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/08/2020 21:13

@Whattodowithaminute

What’s the perspective on Germany numbers bigchoc and others? Are the increasing numbers being reported real or exaggerated or increased testing?
.... Cases / 100,000 about UK level, but have been rising since mid-July

Increasing cases are due mainly to returning holidaymakers and large parties, so lots of little outbreaks causing community spread,
plus a few larger ones at care homes, churches, farms which are much more easily tackled.

Lots of targeted testing
As my calculations, probably only about 3% of the rl cases at peak in early April

RKI and politicians have been expressing concern for weeks,
but public concern likely to remain low, so long as hospitalisation remains low and deaths almost always in single figures;
deaths have been < 20 since 17 June

So, SPD and CDU now discussing whether larger parties & events should be banned again

Also, regions with a lot of school cases - all in areas of high community level cases - may make masks mandatory for secondary classroom, instead of just for corridors & stairs

  • currently only 1 state, Nord-Rhine Westphalia, has mandatory classroom masks
OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/08/2020 21:16

German government also considering mandatory masks in offices and nearly all workplaces

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 23/08/2020 21:17

School cases depend on # community level cases, at least as much as SD measures within schools

OP posts:
EducatingArti · 23/08/2020 21:35

@TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair

Has this made it on here yet? Apologies if so

www.gov.uk/government/news/study-finds-very-low-numbers-of-covid-19-outbreaks-in-schools?utm_source=01ce0967-35e6-401b-92c7-8d5c486b1fe3&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate

PHE found very low numbers of virus outbreaks in school in June. There were 67 single cases and 1,646,000 kids in school then. I'd say that's really positive news.

The only issue I have with this is that it was when half or fewer of the children were in at any one time so it was possible to seat them with 2m ish distancing and have them in smaller staggered groups at break and lunch time. Also we were just coming out of full lockdown and lots of other things were still closed. Also it was June so students could spend more time outdoors.

The conditions in September will be very different and it bothers me.

SellFridges · 23/08/2020 21:44

The schools data is interesting. For our school the only difference come September will be the number of children per classroom. We had a strong return rate and well over 50% of children were back by July.

I don’t actually think the increase in numbers will make much difference to risk. Many of those who were not in school and siblings who were, or were socialising (albeit outdoors) with children who were back in school.

SellFridges · 23/08/2020 21:45

Had siblings, not and siblings.

EducatingArti · 23/08/2020 21:47

I think in June though, there was a maximum of 15 students in any one group/classroom.
In September there will be 30++ in the same size classroom.
I think this is bound to make a difference to the risk.

AugustBreeze · 23/08/2020 21:51

You're correct @EducatingArti. And only certain years in.

Cloudburstagain · 23/08/2020 21:53

Numbers in a class plus the easing of lockdown likely to make a difference. In June many people were strictly SD, and many things not open. Inow soft play, bowling alleys, cinemas, swimming pools open, as well as people travelling for holidays.

SellFridges · 23/08/2020 22:09

Yes, that’s fair to suggest that any easing of social distancing generally would increase the risk of transmission generally. Pubs etc were open for several weeks before school was out though and didn’t impact.

I’d love a mass testing regime in schools, especially secondary.

Shitfuckoh · 23/08/2020 22:30

@SellFridges Yes some pubs reopened on the 4th July, others waited a few days.
But when they reopened there wasn't that much opened for DC & not many go to pubs Grin even things like playgrounds in the parks etc. But now swimming, soft play, cinema, bowling etc are open and of course they're all inside things.

I'm hoping I'm wrong with my worry about schools.

EducatingArti · 23/08/2020 22:32

Pubs only opened on 4th July I think. Given that many schools finished on or around 22 July, I don't think the pubs opening would have had time to impact general community spread much before schools finished. We know that raising lockdown has increased spread of Covid19 especially in some areas, hence the localised lockdowns/ extra measures. We have yet to see how the full opening of schools impacts things. There is bound to be an increase, we just don't know if it will be a manageable one yet.

boys3 · 23/08/2020 23:50

@TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair

Has this made it on here yet? Apologies if so

www.gov.uk/government/news/study-finds-very-low-numbers-of-covid-19-outbreaks-in-schools?utm_source=01ce0967-35e6-401b-92c7-8d5c486b1fe3&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate

PHE found very low numbers of virus outbreaks in school in June. There were 67 single cases and 1,646,000 kids in school then. I'd say that's really positive news.

It is definitely worth reading the PHE paper and the accompanying data file.

My DS3 will be starting Y13 so I should declare a strong interest and desire for schools to fully re-open, and hopefully stay that may.

However:

1,646,00 kids in school then

If only that had been the case. The number relates to all educational settings and the 1.6m relates to June 30th. The mean was the study period 1st to 30th June was 1.04m.

I have also struggled to reconcile the numbers. I've included the table from the data file accompanying the report showing attendance each day. I've added columns for Primary year groups and Secondary Year Groups totals (anything I've added is in blue font). The pre-school column is not shown for every day.

PHE also included a handy chart relating to the data in their table. I've included that plus alongside it the same graph using the same data but which I have changed to be a stacked column.

I'm not sure how on 30th June we get to 1.64m, or indeed the equivalent figure on any other day in June. Taking June 1st as an example:

Early years settings 108,000 DCs
Primary Schools 213,000
Secondary Schools 0

Adding these three groupings gives me 321,000 which matches the data that PHE have used for the chart; but the children attending column in the PHE table shows a figure of 475,000. So the balance of 154,000 is made up of????????

I'm missing something so if anyone can help me out here that would be good.

From a media perspective the report has clearly been selectively quoted from. So a quote I've picked out from it is as follows:

There are, however, important limitations when considering the generalisability of our findings. Educational settings opened after national lockdown when SARS-CoV-2 incidence was low and only in regions with low community transmission. Settings that opened had stringent social distancing and infection control measures in please and, in addition to school attendance not being mandatory, there were strict protocols for class and bubble sizes, which may not be achievable when schools opening fully in the next academic year (and indeed, updated schools guidance now recognises that bubble size may need to be increased from September to ensure that a full range of activities is feasible). Only 1.6 million of the 8.9 million students nationally attended any educational setting during the summer mini-term.20 Additionally, very few secondary schools opened (and those that did, did so with small class sizes) during the summer mini-term and our results, therefore, are not likely to be generalisable to secondary schools, especially since the risk of infection, disease and transmission is likely to be higher in older than younger children. Moreover, each situation was risk-assessed on a case-by-case basis and only a few settings were selected for wider testing

As that quote also makes clear less than 20% of DCs (1.6m out of 8.9m) were at school during the period of analysis.

This is the direct link to the report and data file www.gov.uk/government/publications/sars-cov-2-infection-and-transmission-in-educational-settings

The figures and table I have referred to above are tab figure_S2 in the data file

Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 15
Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 15
InMySpareTime · 24/08/2020 06:16

Could the extra 154000 be part-timers? Some schools round here had 15 per class, but one week on, one week off. That wouldn't show in any one day's numbers.

NeurotrashWarrior · 24/08/2020 06:35

Some areas didn't return till the 15th June. So a snapshot on 30th was just two weeks in; given you need to allow a good 2 weeks to start picking up infections that's a little early, and obviously that number hasn't been constant since the 1st. Possibly affected numbers?

Also, as bigchoc says, it's dependent on community transmission. In many areas it looks like June had the lowest rates generally. Fewer things were open too.

It's not a hugely helpful comparison imo.

NeurotrashWarrior · 24/08/2020 06:36

And yes, we had part timers, as well as pupils who were key workers and not necessarily in full time.

NeurotrashWarrior · 24/08/2020 07:08

If this is the data being used to say that schools are safe and that staff are the key spreaders, there's a lot of key data / environmental context missing going forward.

Only between 30-50% of primary returned.
Hardly any secondary pupils, who can spread it effectively.
Many pupils part time, shorter days.
Half or less class sizes (that I know of here, including mine, it was generally 1/3 of the class, around 10.)
Some didn't start till mid June.
Many classes held outside as much as possible.
Background case levels very low.
Many amenities still closed.

There's clearly a huge difference between primary and secondary and it's about time this was faced up to.

If this is the phe study, it's continuing during September. My son's LEA doesn't return till 8th sept, some areas are staggering entry. Any further analysis should include October in my opinion.

NeurotrashWarrior · 24/08/2020 07:10

Blaming staff for infections in schools while instructing them to not wear masks is ridiculous.

itsgettingweird · 24/08/2020 07:34

@NeurotrashWarrior

Blaming staff for infections in schools while instructing them to not wear masks is ridiculous.
It's all so contradictory
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