School re-opening may not go well.

[jomartin281271]

Here's an article from the New York Times documenting what happened when the Israeli government decided to re-open their schools. They thought they had beaten the virus (which this country certainly hasn't) and within days it was spreading again like wildfire. One section of the article is particularly interesting. It reads:

'Public health experts worldwide have coalesced around a set of guidelines for reopening schools.

A major recommendation is to create groups of 10 to 15 students who stay together in classrooms, at recess and lunchtime, with teachers assigned to only one group. Each group has minimal contact with other groups, limiting any spread of infection. And if a case of Covid-19 emerges, one group can be quarantined at home while others can continue at school.

Other key recommendations include staggering schedules or teaching older students online, keeping desks several feet apart, sanitizing classrooms more frequently, providing ventilation and opening windows if possible, and requiring masks for staff and students old enough to wear them properly.'

Our government are going to be cramming the kids into the same old classrooms, students won't be wearing masks, and the older students won't be able to study remotely. And this in a country with one of the highest mortality rates from Covid in the world.

You can read the full article here.

www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/world/middleeast/coronavirus-israel-schools-reopen.html

A major recommendation is to create groups of 10 to 15 students who stay together in classrooms, at recess and lunchtime, with teachers assigned to only one group. Each group has minimal contact with other groups, limiting any spread of infection.

How will this work in secondary schools where the students are in different sets for some subjects, and all study different options?

@Piggywaspushed
I do not claim.to be an expert. But I am writing what we have seen on the ground. I care very deeply about the deprived children, and I'd say only about 5% of them were in school.

@Napqueen1234
Absolutely. I honestly shouldn't even look on Mumsnet as the hysteria is something else. My husband is self employed and if he doesn't work, he doesn't earn. I wonder if these same people will be shouting loudly next year when the cancer deaths have doubled due to lack of treatment or when suicides have doubled due to job losses and poverty they will be horrified...or in the Autumn when millions of people lose their jobs. Nope, I'm sure they won't because they can't see past their own windows in their detached houses in pleasant areas.

It's actually not most people who work who have two full time working parents (or one single parent) and children totally reliant on school for childcare. Those issues matter, of course they do but it isn't most people. Not by a long way.

I believe the entire of the cabinet sends their kids to private school. They don’t give a shit about state education, is the truth.

If only we’d had a chance to vote them out before all this happened. Oh hang on -

It wasn't 5% , but, yes, it wasn't enough. The government wouldn't remotely care about this outside of Covid and the sole responsibility for the issue of vulnerable children has been laid for too long on schools to 'solve'.

That isn't true coco.

[quote MrsHerculePoirot]@moretolifethanthis2020 I too am a teacher and we have spent a lot of time supporting our vulnerable families, providing food, support etc. on a regular basis etc so no they are not ‘forgotten about’.

To me the ‘won’t someone think of the children send them back regardless’ are the hysterical posts. Not the ones trying to make suggestions to reopen schools safely and to as many children as possible. I find it weird that those that tend to shout about everyone going back and just get on with it are unable to see that’s what we are trying to do safely. We are in the middle of a global pandemic. It’s not normal so we need to do things differently in order to make it work. Why would you not want that?[/quote]
This.

We are in the middle of a global pandemic.

Good grief: are we? Not just a pandemic, which is an epidemic occurring worldwide, but a global one, which is an epidemic occurring worldwide. Thank God you told us 🙄

I really wish posters would stop stating this as if they were privy to some profound insight which made their post extra-meaningful.

In the Netherlands schools returned in May, in Australia they didn’t really ever close.

I have family members in both countries and that’s what they tell me.

@Napqueen1234
...don’t realise how privileged they are
Get away with the bloody privilege bollocks. Just because I would like the option of keeping ds home (and I would like the wider opening of schools to be done with better systems in place) does not mean I am floating on some cloud of fucking privilege.

But Australia is now battling outbreaks, including in schools.

I am not sure it was all year groups in the NL. But apparently compliance with other mitigations in the community in the NL was very very high.

Of course, they went on summer holidays very shortly after returning so not much data to look at there.

Do you have evidence for the Australian schools?

@Legomaus, this kind of caricature is simply unhelpful and makes you appear to be an idiot having a rant, I’m afraid.

The situation is far more nuanced than you allow for. Sure, some parents are selfish and don’t care about the virus as it doesn’t threaten them significantly. Sure, some parents and their families are rightly terrified that the virus could badly impact them.

Most of us are stuck somewhere in the middle, hoping that there is a solution to be found that gives us an acceptable balance of risk and a return to normality in the most essential aspects of our lives.

Parents don’t just want free full time childcare - and by the way, if you work full time with a commute, school from 8.45 to 3.30pm doesn’t actually come close to full time - parents want their children to be educated, which is not something that can be done successfully from home given the lack of experience, training and technological capability in the teaching profession and schools.

And state education is not free - it is something all tax-paying adults invest in to ensure that our citizens are able to make a contribution to society as an adult.

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross

We are in the middle of a global pandemic.

Good grief: are we? Not just a pandemic, which is an epidemic occurring worldwide, but a global one, which is an epidemic occurring worldwide. Thank God you told us 🙄

I really wish posters would stop stating this as if they were privy to some profound insight which made their post extra-meaningful.

OK maybe there’s some tautology there, but actually it does need pointing out that British exceptionalism does not hold in these circumstances. The UK is not unique here, we cannot simply ‘get on with things’ with a stiff upper lip and hefty dose of British common sense. It’s not simply ‘the media’ making as panic. We have to watch and learn to see how other countries are responding, and that includes what’s happening with school reopenings across the world.

@Piggywaspushed

That isn't true coco.

Really? Do enlighten me I’m genuinely interested.

@DrMadelineMaxwell

Add that to the Guardian article about the spread of covid in the summer camp in the States!

Likewise the Australian childcare provider is at the centre of another outbreak.

@Piggywaspushed the ONS says

‘In April to June 2019, 3 in 4 mothers with dependent children (75.1%) were in work in the UK. This compared with 92.6% of fathers with dependent children’.

That’s the vast majority of people. Even if people work part time which a lot of mums do the likelihood of their working days matching perfectly to the children’s ‘in school’ days is low and they may not be able to change them. Let alone if they have multiple children with different days ‘in’ and ‘out’. SAHP and flexible working to the extend of choosing whichever day you wish to work that week to fit completely around your schedule is incredibly rare.

Also have a look at the average numbers in a classroom for these other countries. What is their average physical classroom size? I've been in schools in other countries and they definitely feel less crowded than the shitshow we have here.

@Redolent I agree that British Exceptionalism doesn’t apply but that assumes every other country is more than happy to just close down or work online/PT. I work with people from all round the world and people are up in arms in virtually every country about education- each was as we are here. It isn’t us thinking we are special it’s the people asking their Government to solve a problem which is being asked across the globe.

I feel i need to clarify that when i was pointing out how some children were in a home position that meant remote learning was impossible and thats why schools reopening is happening. It was to reflect on the fact that people focus on schools but actually we have a very poor society. the government could focus on social services, internet access, raising benefits so food could be bought, housing. Its cheap and cheerful to bung everyone into school.
Its a mess.

Really think a lot of people live with their head in the clouds. If only we could all stay at home endlessly! Some people have to work full time and work in a role that is unable to work from home. I'm a single full time working mother and no school means no work means no pay means no way to provide for my children!!! My children both were at Keyworker club throughout lockdown and have been fine. The risk to children is smaller. Some people just want to live this new life with no school, endless time off, kids at home full time with no regard for people that actually have to work to make ends meet

This is nothing like the flu ffs, and it's 'ludicrous'

Yeah it’s not the fucking flu, the flu is actually much deadlier for children .... but we know this isn’t about them 🙃

@MrsHerculePoirot

All pandemics are GLOBAL, it’s the literal definition of the word pandemic. And yes @TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross could not agree more.

In Wales the guidance from Monday has been that children under the age of 11 do not need to socially distance from each other or from adults.

We are back in full time with year group bubbles.

Presumably they are working on data that shows transmission between under 11s is low and the next few weeks will give us some insight into the impact of these children not distancing.

I teach Nursery and we have had to shorten our sessions for September, to enable the Nursery to be cleaned in between the morning and afternoon sessions and will have to have separate resources for the two sessions (or clean them using Milton)

moretolifethanthis2020 - not dramatic at all. It IS an experiment - no-one knows how it will work out here. That is not drama - that is fact.

And I absolutely agree that teachers want to get back and get on with the jobs that they are devoted to. But I repeat: it will not take many teachers off sick (with whatever - not necessarily covid) before the plans in place to staff schools will fall down. In our village school, you are talking just one member of staff down and sticking to the rules will become an impossibility.