School re-opening may not go well.

[jomartin281271]

Here's an article from the New York Times documenting what happened when the Israeli government decided to re-open their schools. They thought they had beaten the virus (which this country certainly hasn't) and within days it was spreading again like wildfire. One section of the article is particularly interesting. It reads:

'Public health experts worldwide have coalesced around a set of guidelines for reopening schools.

A major recommendation is to create groups of 10 to 15 students who stay together in classrooms, at recess and lunchtime, with teachers assigned to only one group. Each group has minimal contact with other groups, limiting any spread of infection. And if a case of Covid-19 emerges, one group can be quarantined at home while others can continue at school.

Other key recommendations include staggering schedules or teaching older students online, keeping desks several feet apart, sanitizing classrooms more frequently, providing ventilation and opening windows if possible, and requiring masks for staff and students old enough to wear them properly.'

Our government are going to be cramming the kids into the same old classrooms, students won't be wearing masks, and the older students won't be able to study remotely. And this in a country with one of the highest mortality rates from Covid in the world.

You can read the full article here.

www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/world/middleeast/coronavirus-israel-schools-reopen.html

@Jellybeansincognito

You could deregister and home school if that is an option - why not do it if you are worried about health.
If all the sahm/people with nannies or people who have the time to home school (since not working etc) did it then fewer children in school.

I find it very hard to settle on a definitive answer to how I feel about schools returning. There are so many variables and I am aware we haven't had direct experience of the virus so I am biased by only reading reports of what other people have experienced. But I am concerned about raising my children with the idea that I can keep them in a 'risk free' bubble at home because the outside world is so potentially dangerous. I am deeply concerned about the toll on their mental health if I try and live up to that standard.

@Mintychoc1

I agree with you - if people are really worried then deregister and home school if they are able to. Just do it?

Mintychoc1

You might be "sick of it" but it is the truth.

And luckily enough we don't have to stop 'discussing' it because it hurtz your feelz.

A pandemic is not global. A pandemic is an epidemic that has spread over a large area but it doesn’t have to be global.

It is perfectly acceptable and correct to say global pandemic. (I’m an editor)

Cambridge dictionary definition.

pandemic
adjective MEDICAL specialized
UK /pænˈdem.ɪk/ US /pænˈdem.ɪk/

(of a disease) existing in almost all of an area or in almost all of a group of people, animals, or plants:
In some parts of the world malaria is still pandemic.

I think schools could do with some radical re-thinking. I would separate the school day into 2 - half the children go in the morning, half in the afternoon. The same teacher stays with the same children all the time, so although the school is open for longer, their day is no longer. Scrap non-essential subjects and sports, concentrating on academic subjects - children can play sport, etc. in the half-day they aren't at school.

Mumsnet you can delete my thread for calling legomaus out because I'm sick to the back teeth of seeing them on every thread claiming "selfish parents want free childcare waa waa".

Why not delete their posts insulting those of us who want our children to have a decent education and socialisation?

Your husband is entitled to social distancing or SD + measures or ppe if needed.
Teachers are not. No teacher that I know complained about going in to work for key worker and vulnerable children and will go back to work as needed but are allowed to be anxious that in a region where indoor contact between households is not allowed as it has been shown to drive infection it is apparently safe to be indoors with 120 kids a day and we don't need to wear masks because it is easier to contact trace (if we get infected) rather than seeing different people every day. @walksen

Totally agree with this. I’m pregnant and have been in school with groups of up to 12 key worker pupils since March. I didn’t have to be as at the time pregnant people could have chosen to shield at home. With the distance between me and the pupils and the overall amount of pupils in school, 60/1500, I felt safe enough.
What concerns me is that now I will be in my third trimester, which according the the NHS and medical experts is the more dangerous time for pregnant women. But now, according to government guidelines I have to be in school (okay I was anyway so that’s no problem on the surface) because the risks have been effectively mitigated!?!?! I’m just struggling to see how the risks have been mitigated. As a secondary school, the bubbles are 300 pupils. Most of my classes have 36 pupils in them in my small, badly ventilated room. The government says no PPE. In my room there is nowhere to stand where I am ever more than 1m away from a pupil. Now if this was the norm for all workers I wouldn’t think a thing of it and to be honest if I wasn’t pregnant it would bother me either but I feel like my unborn baby is being used as the experiment here. My midwife has said I should not be in work in the third trimester in those conditions but this totally contradicts the government’s guidance.

I so want to be in school; I’m desperate to see my classes again and have some kind of normality before I give birth. I’m worried for all the kids; those that need safeguarding, those with SEN needs and the large numbers who won’t have made as much progress as they could have this year. However, I cannot comprehend such a blasé approach to the health and safety of school staff, especially the vulnerable from the government, especially when it’s so well protected in other areas. I totally agree with the PPs who have said more planning and resources from much higher up should have been sorted over the past five months. All schools that I know of in my area are doing what they can with what they have but I question whether it will be enough.

Is there a way parents can by-pass government guidance and funding. So eg where it says schools shouldnt spend money hiring venues - could a PTA.
For example my sons state secondary has paid for two banks of porta-loos (the posh kind). God knows how they afforded this.
They have a big issue with dining space. Could a parent group organise mess tents for lunch (not learning)

“Just deregister”. Because it’s that easy. Because people won’t be worried about getting their place back.

Because we all do that every time we have a concern about other abloom issues.

I understand the views on both sides of this. It’s a shame others can’t do the same.

I’m old enough to remember that day in January when everybody advocated “being kind”.

@LegoMaus
Well said!

I have been trying to grapple with a similar feeling. I don't identify as you said but obviously have my own concerns.

You have phrased it exactly how some of my online 'friends' have been posting online.

The education isn't the issue. The free childcare is.

I wouldn't wish Coronavirus on anyone. But one particular person online (and her 70ish working hospitality business owning parents) are VERY much of this view
Ie. We need to get back to normal.

The ONLY way some of these people will change their view is if they catch it.

If that happens she would 100% film herself in bed saying 'guys this is real, it's so bad' then backtrack on everything and blame everyone all though SHE is the problem. She refuses to wear a mask, probably found a loophole reason and posted about not wearing one. She is really not a nice person. I would unfollow her but it gives great insight into the millions of people who think like her.

Rant over!

Those saying about schools opening for key worker children didn't have any cases.

there is a major difference between small key worker bubbles with parents who understand the risk, wear PPE at work and wouldnt be sending their children in ill. There was an awful lot of the time spent outside. most schools didn't do any type of education

to full class sizes, following the curriculum, families mixing like mad over the summer, pubs open, restaurants open etc, after school clubs open, no PPE and some parents sure that covid isn't a real risk so sending children in mild illness. Ontop of that the threat of fines mean that people will feel pressure to send in little ones in with low level illness even more

Schools need to reopen fully.
Anyone who isn’t happy should keep their kids at home and continue their “education” via BBC bitesize, and leave the rest of us to have our kids properly educated.

What puzzles me about this attitude is that it's clear now that the Covid 19 pandemic is not going to be swept up and made to disappear quickly, is it?

Nothing is going to go back to how it was - in the short or long term.

Great change is going to come from this and imo a lot of it will be for the better.

So why are schools supposed to go back to normal? There is potential for change for the better here too with schools that still run on a Victorian system. If we open our minds and allow change to happen - well, we need to do this, really we have no choice. But if we can all do this - change for the good in our education and schools will happen ...

@MrsR87

I'm your situation I would find a medical reason to get signed off work. You won't be starting your maternity leave you'll be on sick pay.

It's not ethical but if you have such concerns and are going to be off soon on maternity get signed off sick.

Google something you can tell a doctor like siatica or similar. Something they can't test for and get signed off.

These are not normal times and you don't need the stress

Of course my suggestions need money. I also know the government hasn't give schools extra money - I think they should (don't start mentioning magic money trees, they seem to exist for certain things and not for others). I also don't agree that 2 staff are needed per bubble to do cleaning, it would be cheaper and easier to employ a designated cleaner to go round on schedule cleaning everything. Yes, again this needs money.

If schools are to reopen safely, and stay open, we need to spend money on the problem.

Schools are huge vectors for disease - flu, noro etc. There is no reason to think COVID won't be the same.

Schools being open for Keyworker and vulnerable children did not increase the spread, but that is because the small bubble model was used and well maintained. It works, and it should be continued. Using my suggestions above, if we (the government) had planned properly during the school closure, it would be possible to do in the main.

@MrsR87 sorry you’re having to face that situation.

I teach secondary.
My timetable for September covers years 7, 9, 10 & 11.
I will see, roughly, 250 different students over the course of a week, from different 'bubbles'. As will my TA. I'll also have to work with other staff in the faculty (12). My TA will also support other teachers, who teach other classes.
All these bubbles at high school are a waste of time. Our 'bubbles' have over 300 students in each.
Students will have to stay in their 'bubble zones' for lunch, staggered breaks, staggered lesson starts. There are different loos for different bubbles. Different entrances/exits.
But other teachers and myself will come into contact with all of students.

And, the buses - a third of our students arrive and leave on buses. And we won't have enough for 'bubbles' on buses - so they will all be squashed in together - kept in zones all day - then sent home squashed together again.

Students who have siblings will be let in and out at different times, and kept apart all day - then, naturally, be together at home.

It won't work - we all know this, every single one of us at the school.

But we have no option but to do it.

I think we'll be closed by October half term.

frippEnos education is important, if only to teach people that “hurtz” and “feelz” are not actual words.

If teachers want to wear masks it’s fine with me. Kids too. I just don’t understand why people think that schools are some sort of sacred place where life can be paused indefinitely, whilst hospitals, GP surgeries, shops, care homes, cafes, dentists, warehouses etc find ways to keep working.

I also don't agree that 2 staff are needed per bubble to do cleaning

We didn’t have two staff per bubble for cleaning, it was to cover each other’s breaks/lunch and in case there was a problem. Obviously if there is a problem/accident/emergency etc in a normal classroom, you’d send a child as a runner to get SLT, but can’t do that now. If a teacher was on their own in a class-there would be no way to raise the alarm. No phone in the class, no mobiles allowed, it’s too far from anyone else to stand at the door and shout!

Well you'll get to see how it works soon. Aberdeen is in a local lockdown and the schools are still going ahead with opening next week. No reduced class sizes, no SD between children, no bubbles as far as I know.

I just don’t understand why people think that schools are some sort of sacred place where life can be paused indefinitely, whilst hospitals, GP surgeries, shops, care homes, cafes, dentists, warehouses etc find ways to keep working

Conversely, I just don’t get why hospitals, GP surgeries, shops, dentists etc have all hugely changed the way they operate, yet people want schools to go back exactly as normal.

Nothing is going to go back to how it was - in the short or long term... Great change is going to come from this and imo a lot of it will be for the better.

The following has not changed ...

The need to pay rent/mortgage to keep a roof over peoples heads.

The need to pay for food and essentials.

Employers expectation that if employees are contracted for x hours a day, they can give their full attention in that time.

Employers rights to say where their employees are based to do that work.

If school can not facilitate basic working hours for parents, we have enormous economic and societal problems on our hands. There is nothing in place to fill that gap.

So that’s the issue that I and other working parents have. I support all kinds of measures to improve safety in schools, but once we suggest something beyond ‘full time hours for all who require them’ then the entire work/education/childcare situation needs to be rethought. And that’s an enormous undertaking.

@wagtailred

That's a great example of practical solution to getting education in schools back on track.

Ideal world... Everyone back full time in small groups with qualified teachers who can maintain distance from pupils in airy rooms.

We aren't in ideal world. Especially secondary schools.

My idea would be for part time school, with free childcare in school hours for those who need it (based on sports, craft etc, or individual learning for older schools). Secondary schools with less child care issues being part time with a 'zone' for vulnerable children in their 'off' times where they can access online learning. Masks encouraged in secondary school. Streaming instead of sets in Yr7/8 to avoid as much mixing, or setting across smaller groups instead of year groups. Sixth Forms/Colleges being more home based than setting based. Investment to make sure all pupils had adequate IT (starting with oldest and working down, with Primary maybe being paper based). More investment in BbC Bitesize and Oak.

Letseatgrandma you'd have to send a kid or have a classroom mobile, work rounds would have to be found. Those are both better and safer work arounds than the current, lets get school in full time and back to normal.

The current plan is likely to have individual schools opening and closing and opening and closing, which is really disruptive to education, and parents.