School re-opening may not go well.

[jomartin281271]

Here's an article from the New York Times documenting what happened when the Israeli government decided to re-open their schools. They thought they had beaten the virus (which this country certainly hasn't) and within days it was spreading again like wildfire. One section of the article is particularly interesting. It reads:

'Public health experts worldwide have coalesced around a set of guidelines for reopening schools.

A major recommendation is to create groups of 10 to 15 students who stay together in classrooms, at recess and lunchtime, with teachers assigned to only one group. Each group has minimal contact with other groups, limiting any spread of infection. And if a case of Covid-19 emerges, one group can be quarantined at home while others can continue at school.

Other key recommendations include staggering schedules or teaching older students online, keeping desks several feet apart, sanitizing classrooms more frequently, providing ventilation and opening windows if possible, and requiring masks for staff and students old enough to wear them properly.'

Our government are going to be cramming the kids into the same old classrooms, students won't be wearing masks, and the older students won't be able to study remotely. And this in a country with one of the highest mortality rates from Covid in the world.

You can read the full article here.

www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/world/middleeast/coronavirus-israel-schools-reopen.html

[Napqueen1234]

[quote Bupkis]@Napqueen1234
...don’t realise how privileged they are
Get away with the bloody privilege bollocks. Just because I would like the option of keeping ds home (and I would like the wider opening of schools to be done with better systems in place) does not mean I am floating on some cloud of fucking privilege.[/quote]
@Bupkis of course you are. How could you afford that? Can you quit work and live off one income? Are you in role that would allow you that flexibility? Fantastic if you are but I and many others am not. If they went back PT and it didn’t fit with work I’d have no choice but to leave. I’d struggle in my area of work to find another job with flexibility so it would be very difficult. Without my income we couldn’t afford all of our outgoings. If I were to take a lower paid job just to ‘have a job’ that was flexible again it wouldn’t work financially. Husband in the same position but works full time and we rely on his income. It’s not a case of ‘I’d rather they didn’t go back I can just stay off forever with them’. If you can’t see that your privileged you are blind.

[walksen]

"My husband is self employed and if he doesn't work, he doesn't earn"

Your husband is entitled to social distancing or SD + measures or ppe if needed.
Teachers are not. No teacher that I know complained about going in to work for key worker and vulnerable children and will go back to work as needed but are allowed to be anxious that in a region where indoor contact between households is not allowed as it has been shown to drive infection it is apparently safe to be indoors with 120 kids a day and we don't need to wear masks because it is easier to contact trace (if we get infected) rather than seeing different people every day.

I'm a supply teacher myself so don't get paid if I don't work either and it won't be good for anyone to have schools / year group bubbles/ staff off repeatedly due to once again not learning from experiences of other countries and rely on British" common sense". Kids need routine and they are not going to get it unless contact tracing is sorted / community transmission driven down / asymptomatic cases are identified and not being sent into school.

I also worry about shielding kids/ kids living with grandparents/ vulnerable siblings / shielding colleagues/ older colleagues. Does that mean I'm hysterical?

[MrsHerculePoirot]

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross

We are in the middle of a global pandemic.

Good grief: are we? Not just a pandemic, which is an epidemic occurring worldwide, but a global one, which is an epidemic occurring worldwide. Thank God you told us 🙄

I really wish posters would stop stating this as if they were privy to some profound insight which made their post extra-meaningful.

Do you have anything to contribute to the thread about schools reopening or are you just here to be rude?

[mumonedge]

Also it makes me mad when people say working parents just want childcare. No I want my kids to get an education. My son has pushed himself up at school and always needs that knee in his back so to speak from his teacher. He worked really hard to meet targets, being out of school has been difficult. A lot who don't want schools to go back are middle classes stay at home yummy mummy's! Some people actually have to work for a living and not live in cuckoo land!

[MrsHerculePoirot]

[quote tocancel]@MrsHerculePoirot

All pandemics are GLOBAL, it’s the literal definition of the word pandemic. And yes @TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross could not agree more.[/quote]
Right well apologies for making such a total ridiculous statement then. Now do you have ANYTHING useful to add to how schools can reopen safely?

[Piggywaspushed]

I don't think that is true. In fact in the partial return recently, it was found that parents in less affluent areas were the least likely to send their children back.

the point I am making is that those reliant on schools in part to facilitate working are a small part of the workforce (about 7%) : hence the government does not give as much of a shiny shit about them as we all wish they would. We all know the Tories like to demonise single parents.

[TheWoodsAreDark]

@LegoMaus, yes I’m desperate for my ‘free, full time childcare’ to enable me to go to work, what a ridiculous comment!

[Bear2014]

I agree that there will probably be sporadic school closures, the odd outbreak and ongoing disruption. There should have been more funds and planning given to this over the summer. BUT what's the alternative? Some kids will have already been out of school for 6 months. That's a hell of a long time. They can't suspend the curriculum forever. Parents need to work. We have to make a leap of faith or the country will grind to a halt.

There is always the option of de-registering your children and continuing to home school. Perhaps more vulnerable families should be supported to do this. But it will probably be going on for years and that is a lot to take on...

[CountessFrog]

I don’t think she’s being rude with the ‘global pandemic’ thing.

That’s what a ‘pandemic’ is. It’s ‘global.’

When people shout ‘global pandemic’ it reminds me of people on Jeremy Kyle saying ‘on national television.’ It’s just utter dramatic effect.

[Piggywaspushed]

Also, saying rates in my area are low is the same as saying 'my school has had no cases'

Not every area has low rates of infection.

[CountessFrog]

(I also think we will be living with this virus for a long time, and those who don’t want the schools open might feel differently if we said we’d keep them closed for years in response).

[Emmie12345]

So how come when my y6 went back for two months last term there were zero cases of Covid ?

[Piggywaspushed]

You'd be amazed how many people don't understand what pandemic means. It was the government who added the word global , followed by the media, to alert people to exactly how serious the word is.

However, I am fairly sure 'pandemic' doesn't have to be 'global'.

[LumpySpacedPrincess]

We were back before the summer break in bubbles of 15 which worked well. I'm concerned that 15 will become 30 on our return but it is what it is. It was tough going with 15, thorough hand washing, constant cleaning etc, with 30 it will be challenging. Social distancing is impossible, it just doesn't happen with younger children. I'm happy to go back as it's the best thing for the children and I love my job. I wish it was acknowledged that school staff are taking a risk though. It's odd being in that crowded environment then putting your face mask on to grab a pint of milk in a near empty shop.

[FrippEnos]

[Piggywaspushed]

dealt with upthread emmie but

a) you might not know
b) there might have been asymptomatic cases
c) you may live in an area of low rates of infection
d) just because there weren't in your school does not mean there weren't in others
e) your child will have been in small bubbles in a school with lots of measures and reduced overall numbers : the sort of thing that makes perfect sense in a pandemic.

[Letseatgrandma]

@Piggywaspushed

Also, saying rates in my area are low is the same as saying 'my school has had no cases'

Not every area has low rates of infection.

Yes-and saying ‘my school had no cases’ is up there with, ‘well, I smoked for decades and am still alive’.

It means you were lucky.

[wagtailred]

I think its rude to be sarcastic about someone not having the same level of education /word origin knowledge. I didnt know what pandemic and epidemic meant until this particular event. I just thought it was a fancy way of saying a bug was going round

[IceCreamAndCandyfloss]

The risk to children is smaller

It may be but it’s not to staff and some of the children’s families. They should be put at risk because others need childcare.

[MrsHerculePoirot]

Isn’t the point that we all want this to work so we need to do it safely?

If you need school so that you can work, then surely you can see doing it safely is more likely to benefit you in the long run. Without any measures in place we are going to end up closing down classes/year groups/schools or asking children to be collected if unwell at short notice for many reasons.

It’s been said loads before but there are big differences between the way primary and secondary work in many cases and they need to be discussed separately. When I talk about having part time/blended learning I’m talking about secondary. My kids own primary there are in one room, with one class, with one teacher so essentially their contacts are limited. Secondary my tutor group will be in six different groups, in six different rooms, plus come on packed buses with everyone etc... every single day. That massively multiplies the contacts they have. Most secondary students would be able to be at home, without parents, with structured learning, for short periods of time. Those that cannot we could have in school.

There has been idea after idea after idea offered up for both primary and secondary - all of which don’t involve primary needing to be at home with parents. Perhaps read through them and see what has been suggested.

It is not a choice between schools opening completely as normal or not at all with no learning. There is plenty in between.

[Emmie12345]

@Piggywaspushed mmmmm true

Interestingly, first week back, dd and a few of her friends all had temp and stinking cold and all tested negative for Covid

That was the only illness during the term in her school fwiw

[SoloMummy]

@DobbyTheHouseElk

Do you have evidence for the Australian schools?

www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/07/27/vsch-j27.html

[Jihhery]

The experiment, if you want to be so dramatic, was with keyworker's children and teachers during the peak.

You do realize there were far fewer children there and they socially distanced? They didn't tend to do learning or anything that required being close to each other? That's kind of key here. The point of an experiment is replicating the conditions and looking at the results. School for everyone will be taking place under completely different conditions. As I suspect you know but find it inconvenient to dwell upon.

[Piggywaspushed]

Pandemics are not necessarily global. HTH.

'of a disease : prevalent throughout an entire country, continent OR the whole world , epidemic over a large area'

Global pandemic is as bad as a pandemic gets.