School re-opening may not go well.

[jomartin281271]

Here's an article from the New York Times documenting what happened when the Israeli government decided to re-open their schools. They thought they had beaten the virus (which this country certainly hasn't) and within days it was spreading again like wildfire. One section of the article is particularly interesting. It reads:

'Public health experts worldwide have coalesced around a set of guidelines for reopening schools.

A major recommendation is to create groups of 10 to 15 students who stay together in classrooms, at recess and lunchtime, with teachers assigned to only one group. Each group has minimal contact with other groups, limiting any spread of infection. And if a case of Covid-19 emerges, one group can be quarantined at home while others can continue at school.

Other key recommendations include staggering schedules or teaching older students online, keeping desks several feet apart, sanitizing classrooms more frequently, providing ventilation and opening windows if possible, and requiring masks for staff and students old enough to wear them properly.'

Our government are going to be cramming the kids into the same old classrooms, students won't be wearing masks, and the older students won't be able to study remotely. And this in a country with one of the highest mortality rates from Covid in the world.

You can read the full article here.

www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/world/middleeast/coronavirus-israel-schools-reopen.html

Portakabins or whatever they are lol, have people forgot that schools have been given zero money?

No, we have said SCHOOLS NEED TO BE GIVEN MORE MONEY in order to be able to make them safer.

canigooutyet

So you have once again highlighted that the current plan is not going to work, and you have advised that some of the suggestions made here will not work.

So...how can we make it work?

Give solutions. We already know the problems.

Yes we’ve discussed this on many threads - if we had a blended learning model you could have 50% of the school in at one time. When in we would do the teaching/instructing/modelling bit and with smaller classes of 15 would be able to more easily make sure all were Ok. During the times they are at home we could then set some consolidation/independent work along with some pre-learning for the next lot of lessons coming up.

Obviously it isn’t as ideal as all being back as before, but with time and planning we could make it work the best we could. Students we identify as vulnerable
or without tech at home could be supported by being in more during their time when they would be at home. We could probably provide some tech for students who need it.

This by @mrsherculepoirot is basically the perfect solution. If we'd been allowed time, we could have sorted childcare across this too. The best ideas were ruled out before being given time, because of money. It's a shame. It could have been from Oct - Dec initially, with trials of bigger groups if it went well. Also more chance of staying in school during the times given, rather than the random in and out it will probably end up as, which is much harder for parents to deal with.

None of this is school or teacher fault. No one can blame them for being concerned.

And as for recruiting ex staff 🤣🤣🤣 Can someone please give me one reason why people like me should go back. I'm struggling.

Educators - those bits of software that you need for your specific role, start looking at why you need it and what the benefit to the school is. Also double check the software security. As you know some of these are niche and not cheap but really worth their weight!! These things not widely used could be the first things looked at when those in-school budget cuts start. Also include things like those sensory rooms as they are expensive to maintain.

Without cash, it simply won't be go well. How quickly are school staff putting in their hands in their own pockets to pay for glu sticks etc on a normal year? All those extra bottles of cleaner have to come from somewhere, and how many have run out of soap on a normal year?

The financial strain for next year is potentially staggering. They aren't run like the government who magic money out of somewhere.

As a governor in a SEN school I do really worry for the vulnerable kids. The venerable didnt go in. Not because of parental wishes but because the HT didnt really to be open at all.

It increases the gap between the haves and have nots.

My six year old still cant read or write. I don't have the answers but years of no education isnt it.

Secondary schools need blended learning if we don’t want community spread to rocket. Lots don’t want to hear that but it’s obvious.

I really think all the everything is awesome messaging from government is purely to maximise consumer confidence and spending in August. There’ll be no realistic or credible messaging until that spending window closes or is close to closing and then we’ll start talking about the inevitable autumn and winter realities.

Gov saying all schools open encourages consumers confidence and delegates blame and responsibility to local authorities (some of which are bankrupt due to a decade of cuts to funding from central government despite hiking up council tax year on year).

It will be impossible for secondary schools to stay open under the current model. People need to think rationally rather than ideologically

I think Primary also needs a blended approach. Unfair to put thirty children in a room with no SD on the staff and the families of all involved. They should be capped to the number that can fit in a room with 2m distance between each like any other workplace.

I had (suspected) covid in March. I'm a secondary teacher, and I am really struggling with the idea of going back. I'm still suffering with some symptoms now - fatigue, palpitations, breathlessness - and the thought I could potentially catch it again terrifies me. Bubbles of 240+, us teachers will be moving between the bubbles, and no PPE of any sort. Teaching in small, unventilated areas, with potentially not enough time to wash my hands or even visit a toilet more than once a day.

At the moment I'm planning on keeping a very close eye on what happens in Scotland, and if necessary I'll hand in my notice without a job to go to. I have the luxury of a partner on a good income who is fully home based.

@user1471530109 you’re right. I can’t see my doctor face-to-face to discuss my health, but I can go and teach with thirty kids facing me, in a room with no ventilation.
The school I work in is using year group bubbles. That’s bubbles of 200 students. The staff will move rooms to teach different classes, which surely defeats the point of bubbles.
To say that I am concerned, and frightened, is an understatement.

I think Primary also needs a blended approach. Unfair to put thirty children in a room with no SD on the staff and the families of all involved. They should be capped to the number that can fit in a room with 2m distance between each like any other workplace

But that would be about 6 children. Maybe max 8-10 in a large room.

If we did that, children might only get 1 day a week in school.

How would blended work for the youngest school children?

I can't work plus educate for another 5 months.

My youngest cannot teach himself. My eldest needs me sat on top of her to get her to do anything.

How does it work then?

How does it work then?

This by @mrsherculepoirot is basically the perfect solution. If we'd been allowed time, we could have sorted childcare across this too.

Lots of people who are DBS checked are currently not in schools or running clubs because of this. There are ways around the whole 'nowhere to go on the days they're not in school' thing, as demonstrated by some summer schools opening up this holiday. Finding places for this to happen is the issue, but that's a community 'fix'. Leisure centres in the daytime are empty right? Older folk who currently use them will be keeping themselves to themselves more. What's going on in village halls right now? Nothing at all is going on in mine, it's totally empty.

I tell you, if 'we' had been given time to fix this within our own communities, on the basis that we'd have the money to do it, 'we' could have done it. We could get classes down to 15 children, the teachers still have to see 30 children a week, but in a much more distanced way. The 'catchup' would happen more easily in smaller classes, even only running alternate 2/3 day weeks. In every school there is someone who has thought of the way to do this for their community, but we've been given no money.

There are safeguarding and staffing issues, but mostly it's financial. The rest is doable. Well, the rest WOULD have been doable if we'd been given the option of doing things. We weren't, and now it's too late.

I wonder if these same people will be shouting loudly next year when the cancer deaths have doubled due to lack of treatment or when suicides have doubled due to job losses and poverty they will be horrified...or in the Autumn when millions of people lose their jobs. Nope, I'm sure they won't because they can't see past their own windows in their detached houses in pleasant areas.

@moretolifethanthis2020
A few months ago the world watched as New York City buried flimsy coffins full of hundreds of dead citizens in mass graves on a desolate island in Long Island Sound. You can look up the footage.

That was all preventable too.

If you think opening up the economy is going to prevent deaths you could not be more wrong.

I don't understand why people can't understand this one thing about cancer treatment not being feasible unless covid is very controlled. Why can't they get that? It makes me want to kick the washing machine.

Lego why cant they read or write though? Theyll have had either 6m in school or 18m if end of yr1.
In England the biggest difference iin reading is going to be parents reading with them at home. Also bear in mind who is going to be sat with them listening to them at school now? If they are struggling because of some issues then i imagine that will just gradually be plugged away at whether you are doing that at home or school. 1-2-1 is obviously going to make more progress anyway.
Lots of the world will be back on home learning. Or they will be in with masks. The choce is yours. But i guarantee the idiots Us for Them pushing for no SD in schools will be the cause of another wave. So as long as you are happy with that and can sleep at night. But not only that will be the cause of lots more outbreaks generally.
And i very much disagree with schools being allowed to bubble up whole year groups rather than classes. in primary. The colds/flu will rip through all 60+ then siblings will all kids off a few days. Will you be so smug when your kid gets a 8w cough and the gov advice is then thar they cant go back with any symptoms. (Ceetainly everyone will be avoiding you). If they need to mix at playtime that is surely less an issue than letting them mix in classrroms

Keep there are lots of reasons why I child may not read / write!!

You are calling people idiots for not wanting social distancing in schools.

I think many just what their children back at home because being at home full time is not good for their child both educationally and emotionally.

You sound very like you know best and the personal circumstance / battles are to be discarded if they don't fit with your viewpoint.

Forgive my ignorance, but Scottish teachers are going back with full classes but expected to distance themselves from children/colleagues? How big are their classrooms? In ours (village primary, Victorian building) the teacher will be less than one metre from the first desks, given that we’re now all required to be forward facing.

I think I need to move to Scotland and teach in one of these mythical, massive classrooms!

Has anyone said teachers need a more can fo attitude yet? 😂

An organised blended learning model at secondary would be far better than the get everyone in, keep our fingers and toes crossed and the do the Covid in out shake it all about for the next 12 months.

That said, the govt has changed its mind about the content of some exams next year, so who knows what will actually be required in September.

No i obviously understand some kids dont learn. But that shouldbt have been related to school closure at all for a 6yo, it is not something that is beyond a parent to support. Even just over the summer if as i say there are not underlying issues. There are 7yo at dc school cwho cant read pre covid it is probably not unusual. Access to appropriate books xould certainly be an issue though

I completely disagree with you.
Yes i do judge U4T as idiots because they are. You cannot just stamp feet and force all kids back with no worthwhile measures.
I agree with needing kids in school. But instead they should have pushed for money and other venues etc etc. The schools will end up closed so contrary to what they supposedly want.
How about you have some empathy for parents with GP living there or shielding people etc. Even just the CV it may not be able to be safe but it could be safer. Giant 'bubbles' with no SD isnt even trying to be safe for anyone it is just for t&t and so whole schools dont need to be shut.

@MangoFeverDream

What do you want to happen when schools going back to normal inevitably causes outbreaks as seen in other countries?

And yet, plenty of other countries have managed to keep their schools open without a fuss, like Japan, China and South Korea.

...... China closed schools for months in areas with infections

Japan and S Korea had v v low cases and deaths throughout - and a culture of mask-wearing

Japan and S Korea had v v low cases and deaths throughout - and a culture of mask-wearing

You have no idea about the extent of Japan’s cases, nobody does because they hardly ever test anyone.

Having a cough after the initial 10 dsy isolation or positive covid test, shouldn't stop the child returning to school. Even in the nhs we can return, with the cough, as long as temperature normal and actually feel well enough. They won't be off with an 8 week cough

@MangoFeverDream

Japan and S Korea had v v low cases and deaths throughout - and a culture of mask-wearing

You have no idea about the extent of Japan’s cases, nobody does because they hardly ever test anyone.

... We know Japan only had about 1,000 deaths in total, which is only 8 deaths / million population

So cases must have been v low

A few months ago the world watched as New York City buried flimsy coffins full of hundreds of dead citizens in mass graves on a desolate island in Long Island Sound. You can look up the footage

Not this shit. Hart’s Island is where they bury unclaimed bodies. Lots of excess deaths, especially of poor, elderly people killed disproportionately by COVID without any relatives to claim them. Nothing surprising here.

Quite apart from the damage to kids' education, especially those with important exams in the next couple of years,
about 8% of workers have kids too young to be left at home alone

So priority #1 is schools need to be ft and to stay ft if at all possible,
even if that sometimes means - with staff off sick - just childcare supervision in a hall from a young adult with a DBS

However, I don't understand why some of those who claim to want ft schools are so against all measures like masks, SD, extra cleaning and handwashing etc that would actually enable this
and also why they are mostly not agitating for extra money for such measures;

Fingers in ears and going la-la-la is not an effective measure to keep schools open

They are mostly just whingeing about vulnerable teachers and how they should be forced in or sacked
Germany is managing to reopen ft schools while allowng the most vulnerable teachers - looks about 3% so far - to WFH