School re-opening may not go well.

[jomartin281271]

Here's an article from the New York Times documenting what happened when the Israeli government decided to re-open their schools. They thought they had beaten the virus (which this country certainly hasn't) and within days it was spreading again like wildfire. One section of the article is particularly interesting. It reads:

'Public health experts worldwide have coalesced around a set of guidelines for reopening schools.

A major recommendation is to create groups of 10 to 15 students who stay together in classrooms, at recess and lunchtime, with teachers assigned to only one group. Each group has minimal contact with other groups, limiting any spread of infection. And if a case of Covid-19 emerges, one group can be quarantined at home while others can continue at school.

Other key recommendations include staggering schedules or teaching older students online, keeping desks several feet apart, sanitizing classrooms more frequently, providing ventilation and opening windows if possible, and requiring masks for staff and students old enough to wear them properly.'

Our government are going to be cramming the kids into the same old classrooms, students won't be wearing masks, and the older students won't be able to study remotely. And this in a country with one of the highest mortality rates from Covid in the world.

You can read the full article here.

www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/world/middleeast/coronavirus-israel-schools-reopen.html

Totally off topic but I'm now confused by the word for temporary classrooms.

I always thought it was Portacabin - as in a portable cabin.

But there seems to be a split here between that and Porter Cabin - as in a cabin where a porter might sit.

Both make total sense!

Is one right and one wrong? Which?

(I'm a bit of a word geek, sorry!)

Portacabins cost tens of thousands of pounds each and take a long time to install, have to settle the ground and be linked up to running water etc

You can't just eradicate the entire playground and car park for teachers too. Where do the children play?

They are not a solution

"It is much easier to social distance in secondary schools"

It might be easier to plan this, but the reality is different.

For example - a month ago - the year 10s.
Taught in bubbles of 10 max. Different entrances/exits. Staggered start times etc. Each teacher had their own bubble and room.
Sounds great.

Except many (I'd say half) of the students waited for the others to finish on the corner near the school, and went off with their friends from other bubbles. I'm not criticising this - they're teenagers - it's what they do.

Thinking that teens are going to stick to their bubbles and not mix with students younger and older outside of school is naive.

They'll all be huddled with each other after school, on the local park, at the nearby Co - Op.

Staff can try and control them for the seven hours they are on the premises - but the rest of the time is what counts here.

They'll do what they always do. Which is natural, of course it is. But it makes them returning to school the next day, and being put back into bubbles, a farce.

I don't think it's true that school plans are 'open as normal' though. I haven't seen ours in detail yet but the bits I know are a long way from normality

Well, the plans I’ve seen from my DC’s secondary look like they taken hours and hours. Zones for year groups, signage for different entrances and colour coordinated one way systems.

As it still leaves year group bubbles of 250 and all staff crossing all year groups as well as hundreds of kids getting public buses and trains, bans masks and has no possible scope of social distancing due to sheer numbers, I do wonder whether it’s been a lot of work for the site team and SLT, but doesn’t actually lower any risks.

Seriously @jomartin281271??? Have the DfE been furloughed ???? Err no.
Along with everyone else in education I've been receiving multiple emails a day and overnight from staff desperately trying to deal with something new.
New, as in 'we've never dealt with this before'.

manicinsomniac

Portacabin is a brand name which has now become interchageable with the work porter-cabin.

I am 98% sure it's Portakabin.

More feasible is for secondary schools to go online and primary schools to go to half sizes in secondary school classrooms.

This sounds fairly sensible. Why not do this?

It shouldn't ever be porter because it's a portmanteau from portable. + cabin then made all funky and modern with a K.

Not that anyone ever ports them anywhere once they're in place.... we still have 'temporary classrooms from 30 years ago at my school.

@Letseatgrandma
Well, the plans I’ve seen from my DC’s secondary look like they taken hours and hours. Zones for year groups, signage for different entrances and colour coordinated one way systems.

As it still leaves year group bubbles of 250 and all staff crossing all year groups as well as hundreds of kids getting public buses and trains, bans masks and has no possible scope of social distancing due to sheer numbers, I do wonder whether it’s been a lot of work for the site team and SLT, but doesn’t actually lower any risks.

I think your DC might attend my school! Sounds exactly the same, especially the colour coordinated one way systems!
It's been a hell of a lot of work for our SLT, and site team (the Head hasn't had a day off since we finished for Summer holiday).
And sadly, I don't think it lowers the risks at all.

We are doing what we have to do to comply with guidelines. But it's like trying to push back the tide.

@lifeafter50

There seems to be an assumption that if there is a 'case', then bubbles etc need to self/isolate. Better solution is that if a child has symptoms they are tested with the new 90 min test and of posit r they go home. No one else dies unless they go through the same procedure. Children will be mixing on buses etc so pointless to isolate certain groups who are have not actually had a positive test. Those who are anxious can either de-register or work out a system of SD from their children and send them to school. Society must not be allowed to grind to a halt because of unrealistic demands from those who are totally disproportionate in their fears.

Hmmm, I’ll believe the 90 minute test when I see it working. Saying in the media that they will have this, is very different to there being a functioning accurate and available test, easily administered and supplied in large quantities to schools across the country.

Schools don’t have anyone to administer it though, so parents will need to come and collect their child and they can’t return if they are still symptomatic anyway.

We had a child with diabetes who needed regular testing of blood sugars-we has additional funding for a TA to be assigned to do this. I can’t see the government funding that!

We have no TAs except for the ones assigned to children with EHCPs and all staff are teaching except the head who is running the school and the admin lady who is rushed off her feet doing her job, so no staff free to be testing small children and I would imagine many parents would not be happy about that anyway.

Thanks Trashtara and Piggy - intriguing!

I do wonder whether it’s been a lot of work for the site team and SLT, but doesn’t actually lower any risks.

Same at my school (secondary). Superficially it might seem reassuring that lots appears to have been done to “meet the guidance”. But none of the really important things - overcrowding, mixing groups, prolonged spells in poorly-ventilated rooms, travel on public transport - have been addressed. Because they can’t be.

Same at my school (secondary). Superficially it might seem reassuring that lots appears to have been done to “meet the guidance”. But none of the really important things - overcrowding, mixing groups, prolonged spells in poorly-ventilated rooms, travel on public transport - have been addressed. Because they can’t be.

Yes, I suppose that is the difference between different types of schools in different areas. We're mostly doing the same things to meet the guidance but with wildly different results.

I work in a small, rural independent prep school. We have no public transport where we are and only 2-3 families live in walking distance. The rest all come by car. We have class sizes of between 10 and 16 and the whole school has about 300 pupils. Our classrooms are quite small but they all have lots of windows and many have a fire door.

We have applied the same mitigation measures as these 2000+ urban secondary schools where huge numbers of pupils take public transport.

The reduction in danger is clearly going to vary hugely. I think the guidance is ok-ish for smaller schools where most children walk or are driven to school. It doesn't go far enough for large schools reliant on public transport.

*Totally off topic but I'm now confused by the word for temporary classrooms.

I always thought it was Portacabin - as in a portable cabin.*

Portacabin is a brand name which has now become interchageable with the work porter-cabin.

The brand name is Portakabin - the factory is at the back of the school I used to work at and the company sponsored the local football team shirts.

We are not allowed to keep fires doors open for ventilation as that contravenes fire safety regs. A school nearby got pulled up by OFSTED during a very hot summer inspection.

@Mintychoc1

frippEnos education is important, if only to teach people that “hurtz” and “feelz” are not actual words.

If teachers want to wear masks it’s fine with me. Kids too. I just don’t understand why people think that schools are some sort of sacred place where life can be paused indefinitely, whilst hospitals, GP surgeries, shops, care homes, cafes, dentists, warehouses etc find ways to keep working.

Your list of workplaces is admirable but you are ignoring the fact that schools are not being allowed to put any measures in place.

Once you realise that you maybe able to figure out why so many people are not complaining about schools being open, but about the lack of protection in schools.

Portakabins take time to install, have to meet building regulations, need power/water/foul drainage, cost a significant amount of money and there just aren't enough to double the size of every school. I'm putting a modular building in on a school site at the moment, it's costing £90k and that's a single classroom.

We are not allowed to keep fires doors open for ventilation as that contravenes fire safety regs. A school nearby got pulled up by OFSTED during a very hot summer inspection

I think that's a technicality vs practicality thing. We know we're not meant to have them open. They're never open if we have inspectors or governors around. But, other than that, as long as we remember to shut them if the fire alarms go off, I think it's seen as a rule well worth breaking for the sake of ventilation.

manicinsomniac

We have just spent a whole load of money of re-conditioning and re-activating our drop down fire doors due to most of the fire doors in the corridors being removed.

@Napqueen1234
If you can’t see that your privileged you are blind

I do not deny that everyone's individual circumstances make this an incredibly hard situation. "Privileged" in discussions like these, is always used as a very blunt instrument.

My privilege is that I work extremely part time in a near minimum wage job, because I am a carer.
My privilege is that we can just about survive on my dh's wage, although we may lose our rental property in which case we are going to be in a lot of you trouble.
My privilege is that my son is in the extremely medically vulnerable category and has been shielded, but we have done ok at home, even though it has been hard due to his complex needs.
My privilege is that his teenage sister's have worked incredibly hard at home, and completely shielded with us, not going out, not meeting friends, they are amazing, I am privileged.

I can only talk about my own individual, obviously privileged circumstances, but I would just like the option of keeping my son home if it does not feel safe...without the risk of a fine or de registering. I know other parents of children who have been shielding who feel the same way.
@KarenKuruma I hope you find a way of navigating through this current shit storm!!

People need to be thinking of the classrooms in cities say Bradford/Leicester/Aberdeen
And whether these measures
Segmentation into 30-several hundreds
Is going to be good enough to slow spread so it could be contained by local lockdowns /school closure etc

They wouldnt need to talk of closing pubs if schools were unaffected and not increasing r.

In a school of say 420
There is at least 1 shielding child
1 shielding family
10% or so people are asthmatic
X% diabetic
Others where grandparents are picking up gc from school.
1 pregnant teacher
And at least 50% of primary parents must be at least 40yo.

Out of thousands at secondary the numbers will be higher.

Having siblings all in different secondary year groups also links these ‘bubbles’. So my daughter in a bubble to 240, will actually be mixing with many other year groups due to siblings.

I’m praying they’ll see sense and put some sensible measures in place. If it hasn’t been a success anywhere else in the world why does anyone think it’ll work here?

At the same time as siblings being in different bubbles there will be those that are at different schools. Either different secondary schools or secondary and primary.

Then you can throw 5th form/college into the mix.