Predicted 2nd wave

[Pixxie7]

So they are predicting a 2nd wave twice as big as the first at the beginning of December if the track and trace system isn’t improved. Do you think the government has learnt anything?

@Jussayingisall You don’t think any allowances should be made for vulnerable families? It’s school or dereg? Seriously?

"Anyone who has vulnerable people at home can de-reg and home school."

Except of course if they are poor and can't afford to, not allowed to work from home etc.

How come literally nothing else in the whole world is going on as normal, but people want schools to?

Children, even younger than 11, catch and transmit: www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6931e1.htm

Well how can we part time school as that is the same argument? I can't work from home so do I give up my working hours and then become poor? If we didn't spend so much money on furlough, there might have been more resource for this issue that would eventually crop up.

@Enoughnowstop

Another poster made a good point "5 out of about 14 million under 18s in the U.K. have died yes that’s 5 too many but during that time 25 kids also committed suicide in the U.K."

There are other risks to children that are much higher than covid. Mental health concerns are really important. Covid doesn't trump everything else.

Any very vulnerable children can be home educated but the masses cannot be kept off school to protect the tiny number in that group. The small group of extremely vulnerable children should have home education provided for them there are many online providers that people on other threads have mentioned.

People in care homes etc can continue to be protected but again people cannot continue to stay off work for a virus that in the main only is high risk for a very small % pf the population and I say that as someone in the very vulnerable group that has shielding paused now.

None of the schools round here had confirmed cases and they had a lot of pupils back

Lalala.. I can't see it so it's not happening.

193 outbreaks in schools during last 4 weeks of term. Just not on the BBC or in the Daily Mail, so people don't think it happened. That's schools with 50% (or less) occupancy, distancing, staff not exposed fulltime, nice weather so ok outdoors, shit loads of cleaning, no staff meetings or visiting professionals.

Report 30, page 11. www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-covid-19-surveillance-reports

Outbreak in a pub: all over papers and news
Outbreak in a school: radio silence

[quote ohthegoats]None of the schools round here had confirmed cases and they had a lot of pupils back

Lalala.. I can't see it so it's not happening.

193 outbreaks in schools during last 4 weeks of term. Just not on the BBC or in the Daily Mail, so people don't think it happened. That's schools with 50% (or less) occupancy, distancing, staff not exposed fulltime, nice weather so ok outdoors, shit loads of cleaning, no staff meetings or visiting professionals.

Report 30, page 11. www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-covid-19-surveillance-reports[/quote]
This. I want to shout it from the rooftops. Radio silence on school transmissions in June and July.

@Jussayingisall

The government could come up with a positive plan for part time schooling that supported parents with something like part time furlough and support. Parents have been overlooked and need support even if kids go back full time (temporary furlough/financial assistance when school closes for cases etc to stop employers penalising us).

They could properly invest in remote learning to make sure it works with kids in half the time to allow for smaller bubbles.

This would lower the risk of infection whilst simultaneously giving the kids frequent interaction with other kids and their teachers

A blind insistence on carrying on as normal seems short sighted to me when we’re adjusting for every other industry and indoor setting.

It feels like a stubborn and negative And can’t do it approach to me

This is also a specifically U.K. issue. Germany has (apparently) an excellent track and trace system. I think they've had an app for a while? They also have much smaller class sizes, children start later. Fewer families where both parents work, more state funded childcare. They also got their infection rates lower than us before they went partially back to school.

It's basic maths that we will fare badly compared many places.

I don't think people are saying kids need to be kept of school

They are saying we need to do something to make that safe for the whole population. So either shut others things down like pubs or sort out our test trace isolate system.

There are options, but sticking fingers in ears and going la la la is not a sensible one

@MoreListeningLessChatting is that 25 more than usual? How many young people develop mental health problems due to losing parents/family? How many would be at risk of suicide if they've just lost someone? Do you think being expected to carry on as normal with infection rates rocketing around them is going to promote good mental health?

They have test and trace and like social distancing it is the users that are useless. If certain people were not so pissed off and worn down over what lockdown has done to them, then I imagine the less harsh Sweden approach might have been better for all of us.

I do think it’s interesting that it was everywhere in March and our school was open I think right until around the 21st. We had lots of cases in our town but nothing in the schools that I know of. Yes there could have been asymptomatic transmission but teachers weren’t ill, the odd parent was ill that I knew of but some of them could have picked it up at work. We didn’t hear of entire classes off ill.

That was when we weren’t testing. We weren’t really social distancing and most things were still open....

We know lots more now and we are testing lots more. Cases will increase no doubt and local lockdowns will happen but we are in a better situation.

To be honest I don't listen anymore most predictions have been wrong and it just fuels anxiety

@Thepilotlightsgoneout

Who’s ‘they’? Every day there’s a so-called expert predicting or suggesting something different.

Just follow the rules and get on with your life, otherwise it’s just constant worry about things you can’t control.

Well said

Define an ‘outbreak in a school? One case?

Or entire classes plus teachers struck down?

I think we need to look at our terminology. ‘Outbreak’ to me would be hundreds of cases in a school. A few cases then isolation of these cases is to be expected. We still have community transmission, the children are as likely to pick it up from home/ meeting up with other households etc, parents commuting in to work, parents going down the pub and not social distancing...

We simply can’t have everything else open yet keep the schools shut.

@TwilightPeace is the new Chris Whitty just ask them what will happen

Saying how many children have died of Covid is spectacularly missing the point.

A return to school is about transmission and community activity.

Reading the Lancet paper ought to inform a few posters about why extreme caution is a necessity and why the government's shouty 'not up for debate!' approach is actually dangerous.

There is a PHE definition of outbreak. Interesting how many people on MN always want to redefine the word to minimise it. Clearly public health experts.

Here it is for reference:

www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(20)30250-9/fulltext

Yes the ensuing poverty and rising homelessness amongst children when their parents are prevented from working will be wonderful for the children
How are parents being prevented from working? They can work if they want to.

The government could come up with a positive plan for part time schooling that supported parents with something like part time furlough and support.

It’s a nice idea, but I don’t know what the incentive would be for employers to sign up.

Part time working can be tricky to manage, particularly at a time when both redundancies are looming and certain skill sets are in high demand. There’s absolutely no case for it from a business POV.

How are parents being prevented from working? They can work if they want to.

Not with part time school they can’t.

@Piggywaspushed

Saying how many children have died of Covid is spectacularly missing the point.

A return to school is about transmission and community activity.

Reading the Lancet paper ought to inform a few posters about why extreme caution is a necessity and why the government's shouty 'not up for debate!' approach is actually dangerous.

This. Schools reopening = massive community transmission impact.