I can’t believe this is how people think

[Tigerlily31]

My MIL told me she’d rather die of “anything else over Covid”

My own mother is convinced she’ll end up in ICU on a ventilator if she gets it, despite having no health concerns.

I fully blame the media. It’s becoming frightening how big it is in people’s minds.

@Derbygerbil

I'd wager that the 'confirmed' cases of covid19 did not require a positive covid19 test.

Then you’d lose your wager (unless the ONS is part of a grand conspiracy theory and in league with the lizards!)

Our definition of COVID-19 includes some cases where the certifying doctor suspected the death involved COVID-19 but was not certain, for example, because no test was done. Of the 46,736 deaths with an underlying cause of COVID-19, 3,763 (8.1%) were classified as “suspected” COVID-19. Including mentions, “suspected” COVID-19 was recorded on 8.4% (4,251 deaths) of all deaths involving COVID-19.

Again with the suggestion that anyone who questions ONS data is a conspiracy theorist, despite the fact that they are currently under investigation.

You can't possibly know that the HCPs signing death certificates would consider a non-tested patient 'suspected' rather than 'confirmed'; there's no legal requirement for them to do so. They are to use their best judgement. There is no requirement for a positive test where the patient's symptoms are 'typical'.

@Sunshiney1981

It’s not as simple as ‘refusing to see the seriousness of it’!!!!

It’s about the all encompassing catastrophising of one single virus which in factual terms is mild for most people and has a very low mortality rate in the general population.

It’s about the utter fear that has been generated to the exclusivity of all other threats to life. By the media mainly. Making people feel that Covid = ICU/ventilator when for the vast majority of people it doesn’t.

Yes we need to take precautions, be sensible, make our own risk assessments based on our person situations but we need to keep it in perspective.

Everyone I know is doing what you are saying in the last paragraph I don’t know anyone paralysed by ‘utter fear’ created by the media though obviously there will be a few. Life looks pretty normal in my area (& where friends & family live) do you know lots of people hiding under their tables?

Never agreed with op post as much as 100% the media scaremongers me so much I nearly had a break down including threads on here !!!!

@ReefTeeth

It's the damage it does to the body afterwards that is more concerning.

A young person who can fight off Covid with permanent lung damage? No thanks

The whole world hasn't shut down for nothing 🙄

And what about people that get mild symptoms and recover ? With no lasting effects

Its not just about what an individual persons risk is.. it’s the wider impact on society..you might not care if you get it Nor care if you pass it on..but if it continues to circulate and rates increase because people don’t care if they are individually affected, they will still end up suffering longer term, as we all will. Missed holidays, cancelled celebrations and general enjoyment of life. Never mind schools closed and lockdown.

Am I understanding this correctly - if someone has recovered from Covid, but dies in a car crash a month later -

• Their death cert won't state the cause of death as Covid (which would be ridiculous) although it may mention that they had Covid of they were positive for it at the time

• But - Their death may very well be included in the stats for 'People who have died within x days of testing positive for Covid'? (Which is true, and those figures don't necessarily mean that Covid was THE cause of death for all of those people)?

I can see how some people aren't understanding what the various statistics are showing. This pandemic has really highlighted to me just how many people are not able to understand statistics, probabilities or assess risk at all! So I can see how some people are then falling for all the conspiracy theory shite (they are logging every death as covid deaths now, even if you are shot they'll put covid as the cause of death! It's all a big hoax!) because either the figures aren't being explained very well, or they just aren't able to work out what the numbers they are looking at mean at all.

And then there's all the 'anecdata'. I worry a lot about Covid, not particularly for myself or my kids as we're low risk and hospitals have more experience in treating it now. I don't wish to give it to my elderly parents though, both of whom have serious underlying health issues and have barely left their house since March. I know quite a few people who have had covid:

• Several in their late 30s to late 40s. Most felt awful for a couple of weeks then have been fine since.
• My ex (mid 40s, very fit, no health issues, rarely ill with anything) who was bedbound for almost a month in April, now has asthma, an irregular heart rhythm, exhaustion and awful headaches daily. He's improving slowly, but hasn't been able to care for our kids on his own in months.
• A local teacher I knew, in her 50s who died of it in March.
• Eight residents of the care home up the road who have died of it, many more residents affected seriously and recovered, some with major health issues who tested positive but never even displayed a single symptom.

From my own 'anecdata' I've concluded I'm right to worry, as it seems like a toss of a coin who will be seriously affected - its not always who you'd think, which alarms me.

As said previously up thread somewhere, just had another docs appointment. Chest X-ray, bloods including d dimmer to rule out pe and a weeks worth of antibiotics. Wonderful lasting side effects

@Justanswer

Its not just about what an individual persons risk is.. it’s the wider impact on society..you might not care if you get it Nor care if you pass it on..but if it continues to circulate and rates increase because people don’t care if they are individually affected, they will still end up suffering longer term, as we all will. Missed holidays, cancelled celebrations and general enjoyment of life. Never mind schools closed and lockdown.

There's the trajectory of a virus, and there are political decisions. They are separate.

I care about not contaminating people in the usual (2019) way, like giving people space and washing hands and so forth. I do not support rolling lockdowns and I expect that once the wreckage of the first lockdown becomes clear most people won't.

@Roomba hope he starts to improve soon.

I’m thinking more about the individual choices like social distancing, mask use, hand hygiene.. Responding to and cooperating with test and trace, isolating when advised to etc. If people don’t do this they are just prolonging the misery for all of us.

@Tigerlily31
@TheMurk
@Smallsteps88
@Uhoh2020
@Wagsandclaws
Et al…

And yay for posters such as @ReefTeeth and @45redballoon

Of course it’s all lies:
english.elpais.com/society/2020-08-03/coronavirus-patient-28-in-spains-icu-i-wasnt-careful-i-was-walking-around-without-a-mask.html

As it is ALL faked and hyped, I guess all the naysayers will be inviting anti-vaxx mum and her kids round for playdates as regularly as possible during the summer break?

[quote swimlyn]@Tigerlily31
@TheMurk
@Smallsteps88
@Uhoh2020
@Wagsandclaws
Et al…

And yay for posters such as @ReefTeeth and @45redballoon

Of course it’s all lies:
english.elpais.com/society/2020-08-03/coronavirus-patient-28-in-spains-icu-i-wasnt-careful-i-was-walking-around-without-a-mask.html

As it is ALL faked and hyped, I guess all the naysayers will be inviting anti-vaxx mum and her kids round for playdates as regularly as possible during the summer break?[/quote]
Not sure why I’ve been tagged in this.

Here is my only comment on this thread

“I agree with you. It’s been made into “the worst thing to exist” when in reality it is one of many, and even then not as bad as some.”

Nowhere in it do I say it is all faked

I said I agreed with OP that it is frightening how big it has become in peoples minds and that it has been made into “the worst thing to exist” when in reality there are many bad things, and some worse. Not sure how you can argue with that tbh. There are lots of things threatening lives right now. Or do you not believe that?

"Not as bad as some..."

Have you read that article?

DebLou47 - Never agreed with op post as much as 100% the media scaremongers me so much I nearly had a break down including threads on here !!!!

Why on earth did you engage with these things if it was effecting your mental health so badly? Why open the Mumsnet threads? Why read the media especially if you think it’s scaremongering? You could have just found out essential information from the Government communications.

To assess health risks, we need to look at statistics, recommendations of public health experts around the world, the actions of governments around the world.

There is no vast conspiracy by governments or left, right, centre, democracies, dictatorships, Bill Gates, Soros etc to invent a global public health crisis

There is significant risk to some, not to others and too many MN posters seem at the extremes of either denial or doom

• probably most people in rl are living quietly in the middle range

The risk of COVID is absolutely tiny for people under 40 with no health conditions

From about age 45, having COVID doubles your normal risk of death
BUT
so long as community level of infection remains low, you also have only a small risk of catching it

The risk really takes off for those aged 60+ who form a significant % of the population
Some work in important roles; some have just started retirement .... and all can vote.

The real problem with COVID - which is what mostly has driven the lockdowns and SD -
is that the % requiring hospital or ICU treatment is orders of magnitude higher than other diseases like flu

In Germany - before the age of infection dropped so dramatically after lockdown ended -
about 18% of confirmed cases required hospitalisation, 2% needed ICU

If community level infection level increases beyond a certain point,
then the elderly will be infected much more
and any health system would be overwhelmed, even the massive German one, as Merkel warned us.

Risk of dying increases x 10 with every 20 years of age
So someone aged 60 has about 100 x the risk of a 20-year-old^

and aged 80 about 1,000 x the risk

• but at age 80 the average woman has a life expectancy of 10 years, the average man 9 years So - for those outside care homes - this robs them of many years.

I discount comparison to risks of diseases like Ebola, malaria etc
because these are not relevant risks, any more than mass famine is,
for those of us living in developed countries, almost all MNers are

I agree with Valambtine, for the frail elderly in care homes there are many worse ways to die than Covid. The slow and often undignified decline with chronic neurological conditions like Alzheimer's, vascular dementia and Parkinson's leading to incontinence and gradual failure of the body's systems including respiration is, to me at least, much worse.

My elderly parents ( fit, well and in their 80s) have seen the slow, painful deterioration of too many friends. They are accepting of Covid. They would rather live and see family with the time they have left, while keeping to guidance.

One of the popular cries on here now is "it's not the deaths, it's the long term consequences"

Well it's exactly the same for all the people who havent had usual treatment for other conditions due to covid. They may not have died but may well suffer permanent disability/consequences whilst waiting for surgery/treatment.

@swimlyn me saying that the media enhances the fear is not the same as me saying its a hoax! No where near!

No I don’t know anyone hiding under tables?
When I say fear, I don’t mean that type of behaviour obviously. Hiding at home maybe.

You only need to come on the MN forums though to read how fearful people are.

It’s just my opinion of course.

@Wagsandclaws You aren’t telling the truth about your friend in the RTA.

A fatality from an RTA will be subject to an inquest, which is a months (if not a year long) process and no cause of death will be documented until the coroner makes their decision at the concluding hearing of the inquest.

Why make things up?

A fatality from an RTA will be subject to an inquest, which is a months (if not a year long) process and no cause of death will be documented until the coroner makes their decision at the concluding hearing of the inquest

As has been explained up thread the figures will be include in the PHE Covid death numbers that are released daily. Any death out of hospital with a positive test will be. It won't be included in the ONS figures which show deaths with Covid mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

included.

But a death certificate with an identified cause of death doesn’t exist until the inquest is closed. You get a temporary one with no COD listed to use for administrative things.

PHE figures are not based on death certificates, they include reported deaths with a Covid positive test.

The ONS figures include death certificates, so there is a significant lag for any deaths requiring an inquest or a PM.

@queenofpain

you are exactly right. It took nearly 2 years for my friends death to be investigated due to a rta and for the coroner to be finished with it.