I can’t believe this is how people think

[Tigerlily31]

My MIL told me she’d rather die of “anything else over Covid”

My own mother is convinced she’ll end up in ICU on a ventilator if she gets it, despite having no health concerns.

I fully blame the media. It’s becoming frightening how big it is in people’s minds.

It came from this:
...people are going to be getting covid every winter for well beyond all of our lifetimes, regardless of whether or not Mary over the road is having gatherings of one too many people in her garden.

People are going to reduce the risk of spreading the virus if they wear masks and observe social distancing, and stay home as much as possible. It actually does matter that Mary over the road has her entire extended family over for a BBQ one fine Saturday.

@Uhoh2020

The media has a lot to answer for for the covidhysteria circulating. Its as if people thought death never happened before now and covid is the biggest singular killer out there.

you need to understand this is not about individual deaths. This is about the break down of social order if this virus isn't controlled. The rate of deaths and disabilities would be unsustainable, and would threaten the whole economy, including food supply chains.

This is why it needs to be controlled. It is not about individuals fear of death.

And the people who are NOT doing their part to control the virus are the ones threatening our whole way of life for the long term. for everyone

@mathanxiety

But what I said is true? It is endemic. That doesn't mean We should all be trying to.get it as fast as possible, and I think slowing the spread is important in order to make sure we don't overwhelm the NHS. But that doesn't change anything that I said. Covid is here to stay.

I would love to hear your explanation for how we somehow eradicate covid.

I think it's all been said on here and numerous threads .
The rules are confusing misguided and in my opinion total bollocks .
In the beginning I totally followed the rules I wouldn't even go out for a run then take my dc out who had sn on the same day .
I live in Greater Manchester and I'm back in work it's the school holidays but it's illegal to send dc to grandparents, I'm not sure what Boris suggests I do take time off ? No fuck off I've done that for 4 months .
I can go to the pub but I can't see my mum .
I've seen on other threads who are scared shitless who say you don't know if you've had or have the virus you don't know if have underlying conditions that could kill you or someone else .
Sorry but I'm not living my life like that .
I'm not going to anyone's house nor inviting anyone round but I will see my mum in my garden I will be sending my dc to grandparents so I can work and I will be going to a restaurant to eat .
If people want to stay home which could be till next summer and beyond do it but I'm not .

The PHE figure released yesterday was 89
These are the sorts of figures released on a daily basis with this sort of multitude of multiplication. I am staggered. Is it the case that 79 more people have died in carehomes in the last few days?

The PHE figures don't make sense. The ONS figures state that something like 63% of Covid deaths are in hospital but over the last few weeks the PHE figures have been consistently bigger than the NHS deaths, often enormously so like yesterday and the day before.

Yes sorry
I was saying I don't get how NHS England had 6 deaths yesterday, plus 5 with no positive test, but PHE said 89.

And it's been discrepant like this for weeks.

I do understand that PHE includes people who died in carehomes and community but how can these figures be orders of magnitude above hospital deaths for weeks and weeks?

Aren't they the backdated ones, i.e. they could be from many weeks ago but only just verified? (Or however it works...)

There is some backdating and there is a lag with the ONS. Early on the PHE figures were missing Covid deaths/ deaths as a result of lockdown which was evident in the high excess deaths. However now it's the other way around, the daily PHE figures are higher than the ONS and as numbers are decreasing the difference is becoming more noticeable.

www.cebm.net/covid-19/an-update-on-ons-death-data-and-how-it-differs-to-phe-daily-updates/

@mosquitofeast
Its not about individuals fear of death

But people ARE in fear of covid death and some have been consumed by it, that's the whole point of the OPs thread.

[quote Iloveyoutothefridgeandback]@mathanxiety

But what I said is true? It is endemic. That doesn't mean We should all be trying to.get it as fast as possible, and I think slowing the spread is important in order to make sure we don't overwhelm the NHS. But that doesn't change anything that I said. Covid is here to stay.

I would love to hear your explanation for how we somehow eradicate covid.[/quote]
There is a movement to aim for zero covid, rather than just accept the situation we're in now, which will cost more if it drags on and on.

Sorry, 'movement' makes it sound organised, it is more 'proposal' from a number of scientists.

Totally agree. Totally pissed off with the “nobody is doing it right except me” crap on here

Some people are taking zero precautions though. It's not fair to say everyone's trying their best, no, some people aren't trying at all.

We were sitting in a car park and we watched a large group of people from several households all meet, each one embraced one another with a big hug and a kiss.

I saw what I can only describe as a mass gathering in a Starbucks car park with around 100 bikers.

I've seen someone on Facebook advertising for a DJ for a wedding reception for 60 people in a house.

I've seen people couching and spitting in public areas with no attempt to catch it.

All these people are perfectly free to get on with their lives, but certainly not right to say they're trying their best.

Flu has immunity from different but similar strains and that is why swine flu wasn't as bad as initially thought. We also have vaccination that slows down the spread and protects the elderly at least to some extent. Without this flu would be nastier (and it is nasty I'm very when people say 'just' flu)

Well, quite. I was nearly hospitalised last year when a bad bout of flu turned into pneumonia. It's what put me on the downward spiral I've been on, with CFS. It made me vulnerable to COVID and I've had long-term symptoms for over 4 months. I still get very breathless now.

It really isn't just about the risk of dying either but the long-term effects of survivors.

Those who say it's 'just flu' think flu is a bad cold. It really isn't.

In the last 20 years I have had two young colleagues left disabled by flu. Both are in wheelchairs, one can't speak

@Iloveyoutothefridgeandback

Your comment on 'Mary over the road' implies that it doesn't matter what precautions people take against spreading the virus, and your further comment asserting that covid is now endemic echoes that.

Optimal social distancing offers the hope of not only controlling the spread but suppressing the virus.

The virus will only become endemic if it turns out that immunity is temporary.

you need to understand this is not about individual deaths. This is about the break down of social order if this virus isn't controlled. The rate of deaths and disabilities would be unsustainable, and would threaten the whole economy, including food supply chains. This is why it needs to be controlled.

great post mosquito

I agree with the above but for me it is also about individual deaths and long term damage. I don't want it to be my child or my partner when it doesn't have to be. It looks like it's going to be a total farce out there anyway. My child needs frequent urgent medical treatment for common childhood ailments and like many others I don't fancy her getting them all and sitting in our children's ward this winter, with parents who aren't 100 percent, when it can be avoided. We're lucky to wfh. If we were no further on next spring I'd rethink but for the sake of one winter, I can't see what is so desperately important when it's all going be lurching and pared down anyway.

And my child wouldn't be considered at particular risk of covid though we were not allowed to send her to nursery for other medical reasons that don't merit shielding-so many people are in this not-quite-vulnerable zone.

The virus will only become endemic if it turns out that immunity is temporary.

AND if we give up on strict social distancing, hand sanitising and washing, and wearing masks.

Its as if people thought death never happened before now and covid is the biggest singular killer out there.

Left unchecked Covid would very likely be the biggest singular killer, and far higher secondary deaths from other illnesses than we have seen to date. Look at Bergamo, Italy where excess deaths were running at 800%+ above normal back in March, implying that more than 90% or so deaths were related to Covid.

Look at Bergamo, Italy where excess deaths were running at 800%+ above normal back in March, implying that more than 90% or so deaths were related to Covid

Or that the medical services were overwhelmed and could no longer treat any conditions that people normally survived from? (ie exactly why people call for "flattening the curve")

The rate of deaths and disabilities would be unsustainable, and would threaten the whole economy, including food supply chains.

@mosquitofeast

I'm intrigued by this. What is an unsustainable level of death & disability that would threaten the whole economy?!
How many people do you think are going to die of COVID? And who are these people? Clearly an 85 year dying has a lot less impact than a 35 year old.

In most Western European countries were seeing death rates at less than 0.1pct of the population. Even those that haven't locked down

An estimated 3pct of people (far younger people) died in the Spanish Flu pandemic and did social order break down then? Even coming after WW1?

Black Death levels would clearly (c40pct of the population dead). Do you really think this is a Black Death type scenario?

Comparing to the Black Death does demonstrate how differently we today contemplate mortality to people in the Middle Ages. (I assume... not having been there.) The societal impact of the plague was such that actually those who survived on the whole became more prosperous, as there was more land available to farm and so on. But then, I imagine that people then must have been less terrified of death. Partly because it was more familiar (both the fact that more people died at a young age, but also the fact that they would mostly have died at home) and partly because of a genuine conviction that they were going to a better place.

@Jourdain11

That’s very true. We are all so terrified of death in the modern age. In earlier times it was commonplace. Children died, babies died. Women died in childbirth. Life expectancy was very low. Everyone had seen dead people from a young age. Cholera, typhoid etc scarlet fever, TB. Childhood diseases and small pox. Scarlet fever. All killed many people .