Hoping everyone remembers at the ballot box

[oldbagface]

I really hope we all remember the shit show this bunch have made.

They give zero fucks for us and our loved ones.

NHS workers have been treated with contempt.

Teachers now seem to be new potential cannon fodder along with family members of young people.

Let's hope we all remember. Never voted Tory in my life btw and certainly won't now.

Oh labour and their magical money trees and future predicting crystal balls

I wish the Torys hadn’t bothered plunging the country into immense debt to fund furlough and then perhaps labour voters would actually have something to complain about.

Ungrateful, entitled, idealists

What would Labour have done differently?

I agree with duffledaisy. I'm unsure whether it's a good idea, but I think we may have seen a trial of Universal Basic Income.

Personally I think a lot more global deaths could have been avoided if China didn't wait until the end of January & after the mass movement of millions to celebrate NY to confirm human to human transmission.

There really isn’t any benefit in discussing what Corbyn would have done - he is no longer the Labour leader. The Labour Party is in a much better place with Starmer who has already demonstrated that he can run rings around Johnson at pmq’s.

See I'm just not sure how lockdown could have happened that early. Yes on paper it may well have been best thing to do but in reality I think the public were just not scared enough at that time.

Part of the reason they weren't scared enough was the rhetoric coming from the government. Boris Johnson was being far too upbeat at the time when what the country needed was a healthy dose of realism. I am sure that the comments he made about ' still shaking hands with Covid-19 patients' played a part in the people not being scared enough.
As I mentioned, I am overseas, in a developing country and by the 16th March all the tourists were being repatriated and the airports closed. Covid-19 felt very real for me at this point so perhaps it felt more shocking when I watched what was unfolding in the UK. Granted, I was not in the UK at the time so I can't judge what the mood was like.

We've been well and truly hit in the face with Covid-19 here. I know numerous people that have died, some died because they left it too late before seeking medical attention and died through lack of oxygen. I probably know/know of 15 people that have died of Covid-19 including family members. When I hear people say it's just the flu, I want to scream.

Lockdown should have started earlier and been much tougher - more in line with the restrictions Italy put in place.

I agree. Instead I'm going to vote for.........err, can't think of anyone else worthy of my vote either.

None of the parties is perfect but I can’t trust a party who honestly thought Corbyn was a good idea.

It will take a fundamental sea-change in Labour for me to vote for them again.

@confusedandold I'm still not sure how you would get an entire country to stop people going to work, socialising, seeing family before there were any UK deaths. Remember swine flu killed about 400 & there was no lockdown.

Looking back at the last week before lockdown the public in my opinion wanted it, I didn't know anyone who wasn't already wfh & my dc school shut early as not enough staff/pupils. The rising cases were scary & the scenes from Italy were terrifying. I don't think people did take it that seriously at the beginning of March & I'm not convinced it was just because of Boris shaking hands.

Did the WHO advise to close borders?

Once lockdown started I believe the public very much did comply @Parker231 what was not tough enough?

@toohotz I didn't say it was purely because of 'Boris shaking hands', this was an example, just the general rhetoric that it was. Also, I think it was clear by early March at the latest that this was very different from Swine flu, unless people weren't paying attention.
As for not convincing an entire country to lockdown when there were few deaths- NZ managed it because they explained the rationale to the public (go early, go hard, safe lives). They didn't treat the public like children. The people of the UK locked down when instructed to, I don't believe this would have been any different if it happened a couple of weeks earlier, with the reality of the virus being laid on the table for them.

One thing I have learnt over the last year is that many of us, myself included live in somewhat of an echo chamber. We are often surrounded by people with similar views, lifestyles and socioeconomic backgrounds. You may know lots of people that were working from home but likewise, there are plenty of people where nobody in their circle was working from home.

Also, I'm not saying that the borders should have been closed, simply that the borders were closed in the country where I live two weeks before the UK lockdown. This obviously brought it home to me how serious the virus was, especially as it is a country that depends heavily on tourism. They would not have closed the borders and evacuated tourists unless the shit was truly hitting the fan.

Sorry for typos - a rough night.

NZ did a great job but I don't think you can compare them to the UK.

NZ locked down on the 25/03

@RunningFromInsanity

Well I’m not stupid so I must be callous then.

I don’t think Labour would have done anything better.
I don’t think Tories have handled the pandemic as badly as MN makes out.
Teachers act like they are heroes for doing their damn jobs.

This doesn’t have to be a political slanging match, and we don’t have to rely on gut feelings to assess how the government has done. Unlike most political decisions, there are some very clear unbiased metrics by which performance can be measured. Across the board, the UK’s numbers in terms of infections, excess deaths and deaths per million etc are extremely bad. We’re top or near the top of every bad table. Based on pure results, the government’s handling of this pandemic has been atrocious.

Obviously that may change over time as the pandemic progresses, so in some ways it’s to early to say for certain, but based on current numbers this government’s performance has been one of the worst in the world.

One thing I have learnt over the last year is that many of us, myself included live in somewhat of an echo chamber. We are often surrounded by people with similar views, lifestyles and socioeconomic backgrounds. You may know lots of people that were working from home but likewise, there are plenty of people where nobody in their circle was working from home.

I wasn't talking about my circle. I work for a LA in London. It's just not true that in London that everyone was acting normal & then just stopped on 23/03.
Public transport numbers were already down early March

As of 2 March, the number of people using the Tube dropped by 19% compared to the same week in 2019. Data also showed a 10% drop in London bus riders. (BBC).

Schools were also reported falling numbers of staff/pupils.

Firms in Canary Wharf & the city had already started moving people to home working from early March.

Our performance has been bad, I just struggle to believe that it would overall be better had Corbyn been in charge. For example the basic income? What level would that be set at? Would you have a furlough system on top? The economy is not good but how would it have been under labour not just now but long term going forward. Unfortunately handling the pandemic is not just about saving lives from covid but saving lives going forward too.

First death in the uk was on 5th March, isolation and social distancing measures should have been put in place back in February, masks should have been mandatory back then. The government should have set a better example and followed the rules perfectly and sacked anyone who didn't (Cummings)

Thank Christ there's a viable alternative to those twats. List time it was like choosing between chronic diarrhoea and a dislocated shoulder.

I think Blair, brown or starmer would all have done much much better. And Thatcher, major, may. Johnson's government has been terrible.

Completely agree with this.

Johnson’s government have proven time and time again what they are. Brexit shit show, NHS, the lying, Cummings...

This doesn’t have to be a political slanging match, and we don’t have to rely on gut feelings to assess how the government has done. Unlike most political decisions, there are some very clear unbiased metrics by which performance can be measured. Across the board, the UK’s numbers in terms of infections, excess deaths and deaths per million etc are extremely bad. We’re top or near the top of every bad table. Based on pure results, the government’s handling of this pandemic has been atrocious.

And this. All of this.

How can people argue with the facts?

Ask yourself, has this government done a good job? Not compared with an imaginary scenario. Compared to actual other governments in the same situation. Has this government done a good job?

And if you have to be creative about how the uk counts deaths, even now we have the excess death numbers and theyre bad too, youre lying to yourself, and i dont understand why.

You can admit the johnson government has been corrupt and a shit show and still say you'll vote for them because it serves you well. Thats fine. But lets not say well someone who wasnt in government wouldnt have done better. Because that Is a ridiculous and weak argument. Like driving to Durham for an eye test. Laughable.

*NZ did a great job but I don't think you can compare them to the UK.

NZ locked down on the 25/03*

I'm not comparing the demographics of the UK to NZ, of course they are vastly different, anyone with more than two brain cells recognises that. I am talking about their approaches to lockdown - locking down early in relation to where THEY were on the trajectory. The fact they locked down on the 25th March is irrelevant if you are trying to say they locked down later than us- they locked down early in regards to where they were on their Covid-19 path.
It's like saying we locked down late compared to Wuhan. We didn't need to lock down in January but we DID need to lockdown earlier in March (in my opinion).

Lastly, you are talking about lockdown from the perspective of someone living in the city so you ARE talking from a limited perspective. The vast majority of my friends and family live in West Berks and the vast majority were still going into the office as normal with children going to school. That I know of. In my social circle. Others will have different tales to tell. Likewise, there will be other areas of the country where many were keeping children home and WFH.

Anyway, I'm bailing out now. We will never agree about the timing of lockdown. My opinion isn't right or wrong and neither is yours, we will never know. If I'm going to waste my energy posting I'd rather waste it on the failings of this government not some imagines scenario.

@SusanKennedyshouldLTB
Nice post.

First death in the uk was on 5th March, isolation and social distancing measures should have been put in place back in February, masks should have been mandatory back then.

Really? I mean I have no issue with wearing a mask & do but some don't even want to wear one now with thousands dead. How would you have enforced the mask wearing in Feb?

List time it was like choosing between chronic diarrhoea and a dislocated shoulder.

🤣😆

Someone's fictional son is a lefty remainer but thinks boris has done a great job? Yeah right!

Don't overlook that he's a recent politics graduate

@confusedandold really you think the actions of a city with almost 9m people, high population density & higher BAME population is a limited perspective? And then you mention West Berks, ok...

I don't think locking down is just about where you are on the trajectory, it's also about seeing what's played out in other countries. And again I'm not disagreeing that earlier lockdown would have saved lives I'm just not sure how seriously lockdown would have been taken before Italy etc started to spiral, no matter how carefully it was explained. Some still think the reaction was unnecessary, don't they? Lockdown had to be consensual, you can't enforce it on 66m.

I hope people remember that there are more than two political parties next time.

Whilst I’m no supporter of this government I think any government would have found this Covid situation difficult to manage. Their arrogance however at certain points has been astounding. The Cummings saga, Boris shaking hands at the start with folk, not locking down fast enough, lack of ppe, care homes....

However I think it’s important not to forget at voting time that Boris, Cummings & other cronies ‘masterminded’ the whole Brexit thing as a way to get to the top job too. Remember the lies we were told plastered all over the side of the ‘NHS bus’? In this current pandemic it’s easy to forget all that.

There are also 57 million people outside of London whose perspective on the lead up to the lockdown would be very different from people living or working in the City. I'm not saying that what is going on in London is a limited perspective, I'm saying that it doesn't necessarily reflect what was going on in the rest of the country. Stop twisting and actually read what I am saying. You've done that with literally everything I've posted.

Also, we saw what was going on in other countries but I believe that some within the Government chose to ignore it, believing that we wouldn't be hit in the same way. British exceptionalism? Possibly.