Increase in Child Hospitalisations in Florida

[ClimbDad]

In February we saw what was happening in the rest of the world and some believed it wouldn’t happen here.

We can see what’s happening in America. Children are being infected at a worrying rate and hospitalised.

Make no mistake, if schools open with normal class sizes, without masks for all, this airborne, respiratory virus will do the same thing here.

Positive thinking won’t protect us. If you genuinely want schools to stay open during flu season, you’ll stop saying, “Don’t be so negative,” and will instead do something practical to protect yourselves, your children and school staff. Masks reduce transmission. Send kids back to school without them, and you will help ensure schools are closed again by November.

This virus is perfectly predictable. Stop expecting it to be kind to us.

www.cnn.com/2020/07/27/health/florida-covid-children-hospitalizations/index.html

@KingFredsTache

This all happened with the 1st June openings, where everyone was saying it was crazy and too soon to let any children back, out children we Guinea pigs etc, and it turned out to be a bit of a damp squib in the end didn't it? The rate actually continued to fall overall after schools opened.

I know we are talking a bigger scale for September, and winter is going to bring all sorts of challenges anyway, but I think a bit of perspective is needed here.

I've noticed that people have totally stopped talking about nurseries on this kind of thread or any of the ones about schools. Before they reopened there were endless posts about how ridiculous this was given that they have no social distancing at all and toddlers are famously a bit gross. They've been open and operating mostly as normal for quite a while now, and no one seems to mention it now that all their worst predictions didn't come to pass.

@lousleftkneelies

I'm just waiting for him to start a thread about how cats should be wearing masks

I forgot about that risk!

Mass cull OP?

The Chinese authorities conducted a cull of domestic pets in Wuhan in February, but that seems somewhat extreme and inhumane.

It’s disappointing to see a handful of people on MN with no better responses than insults, sarcasm and derision.

Your children are counting on you to make the right choices. When they ask you what you did to make things better during the pandemic, you can say you attacked someone for sharing peer reviewed science on a message board about coronavirus.

@lousleftkneelies

You do know what point I’m making.

Show me one essential service where PPE has been 100% effective and nobody got infected even where it has been followed to the letter?

Yes teachers and children are at risk just the same as everybody else in the country who does not board themselves away.

Life is a risk but as you’re posting here I’m assuming you accept it.

You're the one trying to prove something. You show the data that proves PPE didn't work.

The risk to teachers and students is absolutely not the same as for the rest of the country. At least post accurate information to support your argument.

What are you going to tell your children OP when they suffer lasting consequences due to your fears?

Will they be happy with your response?

Do you think that potentially causing anxiety for parents due to a ‘peer reviewed’ paper that may well be disproven in time an acceptable response?

What is disappointing, Climbdad, is you repeatedly coming on here, preying on already anxious MN'ers with deliberately scaremongering posts and links and inflammatory thread titles in an effort to stir up yet more anxiety and hysteria.

Then when some of us dont lap up your 'peer reviewed' links (most of which are pre-peer review) you dont like it.

But seriously - cats in masks - what do you think?

I think the fact that unfortunately some heath professionals in full PPE have still been infected shows it can still happen.

Teaching has always been an infection risk.

Slowly..... the point I’m making is that the risk from COVID is not exclusive to teaching. Others take the same risk every day.

Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a term that refers to several types of arguments, most of which are fallacious. Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. This avoids genuine debate by creating a diversion to some irrelevant but often highly charged issue.

I think my cat would look dashing in a mask.

Personally, I think in order for anyone to make personal judgements and risk assessments (as seems to be the fashion on MN at the moment) you need to consider all available evidence. Why wouldn't you want to consider evidence contained in the op?
If all you want is positive stories then you aren't really in a position to make informed decisions are you?

Slowly..... the point I’m making is that the risk from COVID is not exclusive to teaching. Others take the same risk every day.

Who does exactly? In what other job will an employee be in a confined space with 30 people at a time, up to 150 different people per day and no one with any PPE and no social distancing?

Where are all of these other workers who are exposed to this same risk?

I know a couple of people in RL whose children are now scared to step foot inside a shop, are worried about going back to school and are generally terrified of the outside world.

I think that is an absolutely awful thing to do to your child to be honest. How are they going to recover from that? I do wonder how many people on these threads are doing similar to their children?

Why wouldn't you want to consider evidence contained in the op?

Because I’m not sending my children to school in Florida?

In what way do you think the OP’s link should affect the decision-making of parents here? It tells us that the situation in Florida is horrific. It doesn’t tell us anything we didn’t already know about the risk to children overall.

@KingFredsTache

I know a couple of people in RL whose children are now scared to step foot inside a shop, are worried about going back to school and are generally terrified of the outside world.

I think that is an absolutely awful thing to do to your child to be honest. How are they going to recover from that? I do wonder how many people on these threads are doing similar to their children?

Totally agree.

I didn’t say there was another job comparable what I did say was that PPE was not guaranteed protection. I personally know a health care worker who used PPE and still got infected. Other workers do their jobs as they are essential as is teaching.

Are Gavin and Boris on here? Or is Mumsnet in charge of school policy now?

If you feel very strongly that the evidence supports mask wearing for all children in school (including primary age school children) then I would imagine writing to your MP is probably a good start? I'm not sure what convincing a few dozen people on mumsnet is likely to achieve?

I won't force a terrified 4 year old into a mask so I just won't send him to school if they become compulsory. He's summer born so I can probably still defer him to next year!

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Personally, I think in order for anyone to make personal judgements and risk assessments (as seems to be the fashion on MN at the moment) you need to consider all available evidence. Why wouldn't you want to consider evidence contained in the op? If all you want is positive stories then you aren't really in a position to make informed decisions are you?

I read pretty much everything I see on Covid - good and bad. I would definitely consider I’m making informed decisions/opinions. They’ll be different to some, whether they’ll be wrong in the long term who knows, no one can say for certain whatever angle you’re coming from.

But I did consider the ‘evidence’ in the op in this instance, and used the numbers in the very article given to prove why it simply doesn’t show what was being implied by you and several others, which was that the risk to children was suddenly increasing for no apparent reason when the numbers clearly show the levels were consistent and what was increasing was the overall infection rate in Florida, with children being infected proportionate to that. There are a number of posts on this thread of people getting slightly hysterical about the numbers here, when to my mind there is no reason to be. The problem is Florida as a WHOLE and it is scaremongering to hold this up as demonstrating increased risk to children.

The 1918 flu pandemic took the children first and their parents during the second wave.
This is just reversed that's all.
I think wherever you are you do your own risk assessment and put your own family first in your decisions regarding schools/ home education.
Families with both parents working or single parents don't have that choice, they need childcare to work.

The 1918 flu pandemic took the children first and their parents during the second wave.
This is just reversed that's all.

Huh?

Do you have some evidence for that comment re children and a second wave @Devlesko? Otherwise that’s a pretty ridiculous conclusion to draw.

The 1918 flu pandemic took the children first and their parents during the second wave. This is just reversed that's all.

You have no idea that this is reversed. Indeed rather than taking the parents Covid appears to be predominantly taking the grandparents and great-grandparents.

That’s the problem with data as being evidence the article can be used to justify two very different viewpoints

Which is true of most COVID stuff actually

Hold up, chaps - ClimbDad has new scary statistics on another thread!

No evidence not idea!

@IrmaFayLear

Hold up, chaps - ClimbDad has new scary statistics on another thread!

Is it ‘peer reviewed’ from CNN though? I won’t settle for anything less.

I'm a fully signed up "dementor" here. My two children are somehow miraculously relaxed and content, despite my hysterical worry about a potential second wave. Though I do appreciate the concern, what I do not appreciate is you "ostriches" moving in on our territory. We "dementors" have copyright on "Won't someone think of the children." If you "ostriches" do not cease and desist, I am afraid you will be hearing from our lawyers shortly.