Increase in Child Hospitalisations in Florida

[ClimbDad]

In February we saw what was happening in the rest of the world and some believed it wouldn’t happen here.

We can see what’s happening in America. Children are being infected at a worrying rate and hospitalised.

Make no mistake, if schools open with normal class sizes, without masks for all, this airborne, respiratory virus will do the same thing here.

Positive thinking won’t protect us. If you genuinely want schools to stay open during flu season, you’ll stop saying, “Don’t be so negative,” and will instead do something practical to protect yourselves, your children and school staff. Masks reduce transmission. Send kids back to school without them, and you will help ensure schools are closed again by November.

This virus is perfectly predictable. Stop expecting it to be kind to us.

www.cnn.com/2020/07/27/health/florida-covid-children-hospitalizations/index.html

I work in a school & given the recent study from Korea that says kids over 10 transmit the disease as much as adults- I'm scared! I wore a mask the last few weeks of term but none of my colleagues or yr10/12s did...

Sorry to hear about your child’s experience @Jrobhatch29 That’s awful.

No one has any real idea what the short or long term impact of COVID19 will be on children. The Frankfurt cardiac study posted on my other thread demonstrates a cohort of people who were unaware of the serious damage done by infection. We won’t know the full effects of COVID19 for years, but we’ve already seen enough to know it’s going to impact adults long-term, so it’s sensible to take precautions with regard to children to minimise transmission.

@Orchidsindoors Florida shut schools on March 30th so whatever is going on with them it isnt school related.

We have to learn how to live with this that is true. But preventing children from going to school isnt the solution

Spain hasnt opened schools up yet either and is increasing in cases.

What is common to both:

Both Spain and Florida have rushed back opening up bars and nightclubs. Something we are doing on August 1st. We should really be looking at whether THAT is a sensible and necessary choice or whether we should be prioritising the areas we need to open such as schools and leave nightclubs/late night bars and casinos for a lot longer

Jrobhatch29

I think the point is that these figures from Florida are raising an issue that hasn't previously been considered - that children are at risk of more serious forms of this. Until.now the mantra has been that children don't really get it and if they do it's only mild. This now raises the possibility that that isn't correct.

You keep saying there's no data to show that children are suffering long term consequences - is that true? Is there data that we aren't seeing? Have studies just not been done? Or are you correct and children don't have long term effects,?

Yes, children get other illnesses but doctors know far more about those - how to treat them, what the complications are. This is just so new and so little is known and new things are being learnt about it. Why is it so outrageous to tread cautiously until more is known?

At the outset there was speculation that it could cause male infertility, similar to mumps. Haven't heard much about it lately but imagine if it turns out to be true and parents have happily let this run through the entire school population and it later turns out that a fair percentage of boys are now infertile? Surely, until there's some certainty about at risk groups, complications, fatality rates and long term effects for survivors the only sensible path is one of caution?

@Jrobhatch29 that could be my son ambulance twice hopsitalised with fear of sepsis for scarlet fever.

THankfully avoided CV when his sister had it!

Public Health England weekly surveillance reports linked below. Source data, not vague assertions or gut feel.

227 outbreaks in educational settings since 1st June. An average of 8-10 per day following wider opening, up from an average of 3-4 per day prior to that.

Absolutely false to say school openings didn’t affect transmission. In the weeks following school opening, educational settings saw more outbreaks than anywhere else, including care homes. If it hadn’t been for school outbreaks, England’s infection rate would have been far lower.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-covid-19-surveillance-reports

@ClimbDad what do you think about nightclubs and bars opening up August 1st because as I said Florida and Spain have seen numbers rising with schools being closed (and completely closed) but with those open

Or are you just worried about schools and children and not the 20 something population?

[quote Quartz2208]@ClimbDad what do you think about nightclubs and bars opening up August 1st because as I said Florida and Spain have seen numbers rising with schools being closed (and completely closed) but with those open

Or are you just worried about schools and children and not the 20 something population?[/quote]
Why can't we be against more than one thing at a time?

I think there are multiple issues with opening both and the government is being utterly irresponsible.

The number of educational settings with confirmed COVID was around half that though - the PHE document lists suspected outbreaks, only in about half of them was covid confirmed.

That doesn't mean it's not happening, but you need to be clear what the data is saying.

The article says that cases have increased by 34% and hospital admissions had increased by 23%. There is no suggestion in the article that I can see that children are being more severely affected than they were previously. The issue in Florida is the very high prevalence of the disease in the community.

A small number of children who are infected with Covid will be very unwell and require hospitalisation and a very, very small number will die. That is awful but is entirely in line with the experience of Covid in children over the last 6 or so months.

Covid may have long term consequences for some adults and some children. Yesterday I read a study which warned that school closures could have a negative impact on the future skills of the workforce for the next 50 years.

There are no easy answers to any of this but Covid is not the only danger, it's all a balance and a pretty shitty one at that.

Because at the moment @Hearhoovesthinkzebras that is the opening that is clearly causing spikes in the places concerned not schools
And because schools opening in some form does have to happen

And because frankly it does seem that climbdad has a narrative relating to schools at the expense of everything else

[quote Quartz2208]@ClimbDad what do you think about nightclubs and bars opening up August 1st because as I said Florida and Spain have seen numbers rising with schools being closed (and completely closed) but with those open

Or are you just worried about schools and children and not the 20 something population?[/quote]
Assume 20 somethings have seen the public health messages and have chosen to ignore advice. Personally I think it was foolish to open bars before schools.

Children rely on adults to protect them. We all have a duty to act in their best interests. I think a masks for all policy in schools is a minor inconvenience to help reduce transmission. If the virus causes long term damage in children we will have made an irreversibly tragic mistake. If we discover the virus has no serious effects on children, we can take off our masks. One way is very much reversible and harmless. The other is not. Why gamble when the price of being careful is a mask?

@PatriciaHolm

The number of educational settings with confirmed COVID was around half that though - the PHE document lists suspected outbreaks, only in about half of them was covid confirmed.

That doesn't mean it's not happening, but you need to be clear what the data is saying.

Compared like for like and the rate more than doubled.

The trouble with confirmation is the testing criteria means not everyone who should be tested is being tested. Confirmed cases are being understated as a consequence.

My son is 4 and due to start school in September. If they impose masks for his age group he just won't be able to attend, he's terrified of them (along with hand dryers and dogs because he's 4).

Secondary school might be workable with masks but it is not workable with very young children, it's just not.

@Quartz2208

Because at the moment *@Hearhoovesthinkzebras* that is the opening that is clearly causing spikes in the places concerned not schools And because schools opening in some form does have to happen

And because frankly it does seem that climbdad has a narrative relating to schools at the expense of everything else

Such a sinister narrative too: reduce school transmission risk by wearing masks and keeping class sizes as small as possible. Trying to protect children, school staff, parents and the community? Why, it’s a plan worthy of Bond villain!!!

Close schools? No. Put children in zorb balls? No. Hide at home forever? No.

Just masks and sensible precautions to reduce risk. Not sure why it provokes such controversy.

I can't believe school is going back like normal. This is putting everyone at risk, especially kids and school staff.

It provoked controversy in the school I work at because the slt think masks might scare children! (11-18 yr olds) and the personnel manager is completely against masks because she thinks they're suffocating

I agree that masks are fine, for teachers and most pupils. If that’s the way it’s got to be, that’s the way it’s got to be.

The male infertility is of course a hair-raising thought, but how can one know until years have passed? A 13-year-old may not decide to “test” his fertility for 20 years. I don’t think we can live our lives dependent on side effects which may or may not occur. Everything has side effects for some people. Even paracetamol. Even a plaster.

Trying to protect children, school staff, parents and the community? Why, it’s a plan worthy of Bond villain!!!

sigh.

Look if you actually want people to listen to you, ClimbDad, why not try this:

1. speak to people rather than at them - assume the people you’re speaking to are rational thinking beings who care about this subject as much as you do

2. on that note, don’t assume that your job is to lecture and chide because you and you alone care about the virus, and you and you alone think it’s worth making changes to keep the virus in check. We’ve been through months of lockdown, many activities are still prohibited, and you still talk to others as though it’s January and we’re all skipping off to the nightclub before packing for our cruise holiday

3. don’t assume you must know more about the virus than everybody else

4. drop the dramatics like “plan worthy of Bond villain!!!!”

“Should children wear masks in schools?” is a totally reasonable conversation to have. “How can I convince these uninformed careless idiots who know and care less than I do that children should wear masks in schools? I’ll dig around for some scary stats from somewhere about children dying, that’ll shake them up” is the wrong attitude no matter what you’re trying to accomplish.

I think it is very likely they will do a u turn on masks for secondary before September. Masks for primary just won't work, especially for the younger ones.

GoldenOmber

He didn't do any of the things you accused him of when he posted his op and yet read the replies.

What's wrong with that post regarding bond villains? It's quite mild in comparison to what many of you have said to him.

@ssd school is not going back "as normal." At all. I don't know what your experience of school is but mine certainly isn't sticking with the same group of people all day every day (whether that be class or year group). Staggered arrivals, breaks, lunch. No assemblies, no competitive sports outside of bubbles. In many cases stuck inside the same classroom all day for all lessons. Etc, etc.

Has anybody considered the risk to food production workers? Sorry no data just take my word for it as I think I’ve read it in the news.

I suggest we stop sending food production workers out to work due to the risk. I’m more than happy to starve to death.

He didn't do any of the things you accused him of when he posted his op

I take it you are new to ClimbDad threads...

@lousleftkneelies

Has anybody considered the risk to food production workers? Sorry no data just take my word for it as I think I’ve read it in the news.

I suggest we stop sending food production workers out to work due to the risk. I’m more than happy to starve to death.

I think the outbreaks in factories should be relatively easy to control ( assuming they were person to person transmission) and that's with suitable PPE and social distancing.