Increase in Child Hospitalisations in Florida

[ClimbDad]

In February we saw what was happening in the rest of the world and some believed it wouldn’t happen here.

We can see what’s happening in America. Children are being infected at a worrying rate and hospitalised.

Make no mistake, if schools open with normal class sizes, without masks for all, this airborne, respiratory virus will do the same thing here.

Positive thinking won’t protect us. If you genuinely want schools to stay open during flu season, you’ll stop saying, “Don’t be so negative,” and will instead do something practical to protect yourselves, your children and school staff. Masks reduce transmission. Send kids back to school without them, and you will help ensure schools are closed again by November.

This virus is perfectly predictable. Stop expecting it to be kind to us.

www.cnn.com/2020/07/27/health/florida-covid-children-hospitalizations/index.html

@pontypridd

It is very possible to be part of the 1% you know? How can you find 300 children being hospitalised reassuring?

All the asymptomatic kids will then spread the virus and possibly suffer post viral symptoms later.

Is that a joke post or meant to be sarcastic Jrob? Sorry if it was/is and I got the wrong end of the stick.

Maybe because 30,000 under 5s are hospitalised with RSV every year in the UK and 6% of them need ICU, and we don't lose our shit over that. I know this because my 9 week son was one of them. Other viruses are far more dangerous to kids. And it will be far less than 1% as that is going off confirmed cases.

I haven’t seen people saying children don’t get it at all. Why would be people be saying that when we know they do! They do however get it less than adults, they usually get it more mildly than adults. Those are pretty undisputed facts. There is no conclusive evidence either way about the level at which children may transmit it.

What marceline said.

While level of spread isn’t fully understood, much lower viral loads in children would logically lead to much lower levels of transmission.

@Orchidsindoors

Jrobhatch...the interesting thing is that 30000 children got it. Theres so many people on here saying children dont get it. Well they clearly do. Theres 30000 that got tested positive and passed it on to others, other vulnerable people, vulnerable adults. If 30000 got tested you can bet your life theres lots more who didnt get tested.

Children havent been tested in our country until recently and weve been on lockdown. Can you imagine what our cases and deaths would have been if schools hadnt closed? All those people moaning about schools closing and using stupid language like "letting our kids down" etc, want to think about that.

Ive never seen anyone on here claim children don't get it. We know they do. But thankfully much milder

Of course they transmit it. How do you get to a figure of 30000 if they dont transmit it. Are you thinking they all cat h it from adults and then dont pass it on? Of course they do.

Well they haven’t been at school have they @Orchidsindoors. So will have had less exposure to other children than normal and presumably much exposure to adults if they’ve been at home more. So it could be quite possible that the majority of that transmission has been from adult to child. But again I’m certainly not talking in absolutes. I’m not saying children don’t transmit it at all, I’m sure they do. To what extent is the question.

Ah we've missed you Climbdad. Spreading the joy as always.

Florida schools are shut it’s summer! these kids did not catch it from school if they caught it from other kids then that would have to be in other settings but I would guess most did catch it from adults since they would be at home with adults most of the time!

I appreciate every thread about covid at the moment is “proof” schools are major sources of transmission but given that schools are shut for summer holidays across the northern hemisphere none of the current infections in these places can be linked to them!

Summer school closures have only just started. Those 30000 kids that tested positive will have tested a long time ago, ie before Summer. Im not sure the US did school closures as quick as us, but I suspect the majority of those were tested before then. We also know that the US hasnt been that great at social distancing etc.

What would you do if we discovered that the reason kids have been mostly asymptomatic or mild is because their immune system was robust due to their T cells being high, because they previously existed in an environment of coughs and colds (school).

Then we discover that we've weakened their immune systems by taking them out of the very environment that normally helps them to be strong. Colds are a coronavirus and that is one of the reasons that the T cell argument is gaining traction.

We don't know either way of course but the argument does have some scientific validity. It would be awful if parents, thinking they're keeping their kids safe actually make them more vulnerable to a stronger dose of covid.

"I appreciate every thread about covid at the moment is “proof” schools are major sources of transmission"

I dont see that, there seems to be a wave of posters saying get the kids back, they are safe at school and will come to no harm. Which to me is bollox and missing the point that they will spread it to adults who are vulnerable etc. Theres only a few threads coming through now where people are starting to question this, which usually get jumped on by those people who are the most outspoken about wanting their kids back.

@Orchidsindoors schools in Florida start their summer holidays end of May/beginning of June so have in fact been closed for the best part of 2 months already.

I bake...I think it depends on the age of the kids to be honest. The older ones have already built up a good immune system and could be in the same category as adults. There are lots of theories about covid, some are being tested out more fully, such as the realisation its vascular, and lots of the issues are caused by blood clots and not pneumonia as was once thought. There are also theories about vitamin D.

Marcelline...Probably all been out playing with their friends.

It’s fascinating how easy it is for people to move from, “Kids don’t get it,” to “Kids don’t transmit it,” to “Not many kids get it,” to “The increase isn’t big enough,” to “The kids don’t get sick enough for me to care.”

I completely agree. It's as though they've made up their minds about Covid and cannot allow anything to challenge that so will simply deny any evidence that proves that their belief is wrong.

What we know, or thought we knew, about this is changing as we get more experience of it and more studies are conducted. It's pointless and even dangerous to insist on clinging to ideas that appeared to be correct in the very early days but are now shown to be wrong.

@Orchidsindoors

"I appreciate every thread about covid at the moment is “proof” schools are major sources of transmission"

I dont see that, there seems to be a wave of posters saying get the kids back, they are safe at school and will come to no harm. Which to me is bollox and missing the point that they will spread it to adults who are vulnerable etc. Theres only a few threads coming through now where people are starting to question this, which usually get jumped on by those people who are the most outspoken about wanting their kids back.

I am on the fence. I am worried about them going back for the reasons you mention, but I think the benefits of school outweigh the risks. And I am very worried about @Ibake point. Nobody wants there to be a virus. Its rubbish! But in a pandemic, according to these figures, yes I am reassured that my children have a 99%+ chance of not being hospitalised. Yes it is sad that some will, and yes my kids could be one of them. But kids are hospitalised in higher numbers for other viruses. The numbers mentioned in this article are very low, and even though 300 were hospitalised, the vast, vast majority recovered. I think considering the situation, the low numbers involved are reassuring but maybe that is just me! I am so relieved this virus doesn't effect kids the way it does adults. Kids usually fare worse in pandemics!

The numbers mentioned in this article are very low, and even though 300 were hospitalised, the vast, vast majority recovered.

Did they recover completely with no on going effects or did they just not die? Wasn't there a need item that something like 40% of patients have some form of neurological effects post infection? Are children the same?

People saying "well, children get other illnesses and we don't close schools" yes that's true, but this is in addition to those numbers. So they are at risk of getting chickenpox, flu, RSV and now this on top. Even just at a practical level, if this is showing that children can be infected and bubbles are going to burst with two confirmed infections, necessitating isolation for fourteen days, parents at the very least need to be preparing for a lot of disruption once schools return, rather than assuming it will be back to normal.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

The numbers mentioned in this article are very low, and even though 300 were hospitalised, the vast, vast majority recovered.

Did they recover completely with no on going effects or did they just not die? Wasn't there a need item that something like 40% of patients have some form of neurological effects post infection? Are children the same?

People saying "well, children get other illnesses and we don't close schools" yes that's true, but this is in addition to those numbers. So they are at risk of getting chickenpox, flu, RSV and now this on top. Even just at a practical level, if this is showing that children can be infected and bubbles are going to burst with two confirmed infections, necessitating isolation for fourteen days, parents at the very least need to be preparing for a lot of disruption once schools return, rather than assuming it will be back to normal.

I haven't seen any reports of children suffering long term effects, have you? Genuingly asking, not trying to be funny, maybe I have just missed it!

Whatever our views are on this subject, I think we can all agree on one thing. We want our children to be in a safe environment at school. There's a petition online aimed to stop the government fining parents who don't send their children back until they feel it is safe. If you want to sign it, click the link.
www.change.org/p/prime-minister-boris-johnson-pm-withdraw-warning-to-fine-parents-of-school-children-for-not-attending-in-september

I haven't seen any reports of children suffering long term effects, have you? Genuingly asking, not trying to be funny, maybe I have just missed it!

I haven't, been then it's barely reported that adults are suffering long term effects. Why isn't it being discussed? The only figures reported for a very long time was the death rate - it was assumed that if you didn't die you recovered but that is only partially true. Given up until now the line has typically been that children don't really get it but if they do it's very mild and this is now, if Florida is anything to go by, not necessarily true what else don't we know yet?

Looking at those figures, infections in children jumped by a third in only eight days. So from the beginning until 16th July they had 20,000 ISH cases in children and eight days later that had jumped to 30,000 ISH. What happened?

Honestly, I just feel that until all questions about this are answered the policy should be one of caution.

Just as there may be posters who play down the situation, we have a number of posters who have an agenda in the other direction.

What does ClimbDad actually want? It seems from the repeated subject matter of his threads that he does not want schools to reopen and it is his mission to scare parents. Why is this? I am a scared parent, but no school again ever if there is no vaccine? I can’t support that.

And HearHooves poster is determined upon self-preservation at all costs, which to her involves everyone staying in for ever (presumably exempting delivery drivers/power workers/manufacturers/broadband suppliers/hospital staff etc).

@Orchidsindoors I don't want my DS back at school to "get him out of the way." I want him back at school as his mental health and confidence has deteriorated during lockdown, and also being a single parent who cannot do my job from home it's my only option if I want to pay my bills.

If masks will make that possible and it would make staff more comfortable then I'm all for it.

It’s fascinating how easy it is for people to move from, “Kids don’t get it,” to “Kids don’t transmit it,” to “Not many kids get it,” to “The increase isn’t big enough,” to “The kids don’t get sick enough for me to care.”

This is the kind of attitudinal creep which has gone alongside every aspect of the pandemic: people's brains will only allow for so much dissonance at once.

"And HearHooves poster is determined upon self-preservation at all costs, which to her involveseveryonestaying in for ever (presumably exempting delivery drivers/power workers/manufacturers/broadband suppliers/hospital staff etc)."

I think that's a very unfair comment. Nothing of the sort is mentioned in her post.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

I haven't seen any reports of children suffering long term effects, have you? Genuingly asking, not trying to be funny, maybe I have just missed it!

I haven't, been then it's barely reported that adults are suffering long term effects. Why isn't it being discussed? The only figures reported for a very long time was the death rate - it was assumed that if you didn't die you recovered but that is only partially true. Given up until now the line has typically been that children don't really get it but if they do it's very mild and this is now, if Florida is anything to go by, not necessarily true what else don't we know yet?

Looking at those figures, infections in children jumped by a third in only eight days. So from the beginning until 16th July they had 20,000 ISH cases in children and eight days later that had jumped to 30,000 ISH. What happened?

Honestly, I just feel that until all questions about this are answered the policy should be one of caution.

It does show kids are infected but I thought we knew that. The fact that less than 1% needed seen in hospital shows that for 99+% it was mild. I don't know the answers, its not easy. I am obviously concerned my kids bring it home but by this point I am willing to take the risk to have my kids at school, and appreciate it will be disruptive with bubbles. My kids miss school so much and my 7 year old is really withdrawn. I had a baby in lockdown too and my partner went back to work so they haven't had my full attention that they needed. I know not all families are happy with the risk. I am not opposed to masks in schools either though mine are only 7 and 4. I just think people shouting for schools to be closed is worrying. For how long?