Cardiac Damage Even in Mild Cases

[ClimbDad]

Two studies of COVID-19 sufferers show serious damage to the heart, even in mild and asymptomatic cases. 78% of people had damage in one study, which specifically excluded anyone who’d previously been diagnosed with a heart condition. 2/3rds of people in the study were never hospitalised with COVID19, and were classed as mild or asymptomatic cases who’d recovered at home.

“These were relatively young, healthy patients who fell ill in the spring, Valentina Puntmann, who led the MRI study, pointed out in an interview. Many of them had just returned from ski vacations. None of them thought they had anything wrong with their hearts.”

Dirk Westermann, a cardiologist at the University Heart and Vascular Centre in Hamburg, said in an interview. “We don’t know the long-term consequences of the changes in gene expression yet. I know from other diseases that it’s obviously not good to have that increased level of inflammation.”

Taken together, the two studies, published Monday in JAMA Cardiology, suggest that in many patients, Covid-19 could presage heart failure, a chronic, progressive condition in which the heart’s ability to pump blood throughout the body declines. It is too soon to say if the damage in patients recovering from Covid-19 is transient or permanent, but cardiologists are worried.“

78%, not 1%, not even 7%. 78% with heart problems. These complications are not rare. I don’t understand why so many people on MN are willing to gamble their long-term health and the health of friends and family.

If schools are to open with normal class sizes in September, students and teachers must wear masks. The long-term human and economic cost of this virus is only just starting to become clear. We need to do everything possible to minimise transmission.

www.statnews.com/2020/07/27/covid19-concerns-about-lasting-heart-damage/

@GrumpyHoonMain

Any and every virus, even the common cold, can cause transient or temporary myocarditis.

Yeah. My mam got myocarditis after a flu like virus two years ago. My dad rang an ambulance at one point and she was admitted. She has 6 monthly check ups and no lasting damage thankfully.

@commentatorz

I see a small scale study that hasnt been peer reviewed, by a researcher with a conflict of interests. Being deliberately wrapped up into a scare story on Mumsnet. Hope that helps.

JAMA Cardiology is one of the world’s leading medical publications and the study has been peer reviewed.

Denialism is strong on this site.

@GrumpyHoonMain

Any and every virus, even the common cold, can cause transient or temporary myocarditis.

Myocarditis rate of 10% following serious influenza infection. 78% is unheard of.

www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1702090?query=featured_home

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras - if you discussed in depth with a cardiologist then you may also have been told that there was a particularly virulent form of flu around the same time as Covid-19. It is far more likely to be the cause, considering most of the population still hasn’t caught Covid-19.

GrumpyHoonMain

These are specific Covid clinics that they are running so I'm assuming they are for patients known to have had Covid.

@MarcelineMissouri NHS services are no where to be seen for me yet. 4 months post Covid.

@Kitcat122 that article says it’s starting to roll out from the end of this month so hopefully will be available to you soon.

It isnt 78% of people who get COVID though is it.

How did they get the people to sign up for it though because if it was people who were worried about the long term effects or feeling things it is different from 78% of sufferers

Cardiac damage is certainly a worry though but DR Xand I thought was reassuring on it. He handles his with medication and if that doesnt work may need a minor operation to solve it

[quote SirBale]**@Jrobhatch29* @SengaStrawberry*

Thanks both for your replies. I know it was my choice to read threads like this but @ClimbDad I hope you realise the impact constant threads like this have on the mental well being of those that have caught covid.

As I teacher, I’m trying to understand and appreciate what you are trying to achieve with the constant threads pointing out the worse possible scenarios out there. But please also understand the impact that constant focus on negatives reports have. I don’t believe the MSM have played down the seriousness of the at all the language still focuses on jumps and spikes etc.[/quote]
I have friends who have serious complications from Covid. Anyone who has had the virus has my sympathy and I’m sorry for any upset caused by my posts.

The government misled people by saying the disease is mild, and it’s a perception that has stuck until today.

I believe the government is about to make a huge mistake opening schools without smaller class sizes and masks. If the posts are troubling, it’s because the virus is troubling. I only cite reliable, peer reviewed studies.

Hope as few people are affected by this virus as possible and that those who are affected recover swiftly.

I'm still not clear what action the average mumsnetter is supposed to take on any of this. 4 threads currently running, what is it you want people to do?

[quote SirBale]**@Jrobhatch29* @SengaStrawberry*

Thanks both for your replies. I know it was my choice to read threads like this but @ClimbDad I hope you realise the impact constant threads like this have on the mental well being of those that have caught covid.

As I teacher, I’m trying to understand and appreciate what you are trying to achieve with the constant threads pointing out the worse possible scenarios out there. But please also understand the impact that constant focus on negatives reports have. I don’t believe the MSM have played down the seriousness of the at all the language still focuses on jumps and spikes etc.[/quote]
But you can't expect people not to post things that may scare another poster. This is not a report from the Daily Mail or Social Media, it's a respected publication. Climbdad seems to only post in the coronavirus topic, block the topic if you don't want to scare yourself but don't try to silence what you don't want to believe.

@Sunshinegirl82

I'm still not clear what action the average mumsnetter is supposed to take on any of this. 4 threads currently running, what is it you want people to do?

Shit themselves, apparently.

@MarcelineMissouri thank you

The government misled people

I believe the government is about to make a huge mistake

Political motivation then....

@Jrobhatch29

Well unless there is some sort of concrete suggested action then it does look a bit that way...

I have read the study now and I think what stands out in all of this is how much knowing too much can actually in this instance be a bad thing.

We are looking and studying this in an unprecedented way - never before has any virus been studied at quite this rate. myocardial inflammation is known to be caused by a viral infection.

In the influenza example @ClimbDad the study itself says

We found a significant association between respiratory infections, especially influenza, and acute myocardial infarction.

But is based on those who are hospitalised for it.

In the COVID study patients who had no symptoms of it were found to have it.

We simply cant compare it to other virus because we are studying it at a completely different level, testing at a far higher level etc.

@Regulus
If you read my post I openly acknowledge the fact it was my choice to read it. I asked that climbdad acknowledge the impact that their constant posts may have which in all fairness they have.

[quote Sunshinegirl82]@Jrobhatch29

Well unless there is some sort of concrete suggested action then it does look a bit that way...

[/quote]
Yep. There is a difference between finding a study and sharing it to raise awareness, and repeatedly sharing the scariest things you can find.

I see a small scale study that hasnt been peer reviewed, by a researcher with a conflict of interests.

Oh come on. Everyone is publishing what they have at the moment and pooling it. It has led to some wonky results, sure. On the whole, it's pushing forward knowledge that's needed globally and it's part of a global conversation. There's a consensus that there isn't time to peer review before publication every time. The flood of information is such that every line of inquiry is being followed up and released. There is a reason for that. It's because people are dying (yes, they are) of a new disease and we need a handle on it quickly. Don't pooh pooh what you don't like on that basis. As for a conflict of interests, show me a researcher who doesn't have a conflict of interests. Without funding, there would be no research and those funds have to come from somewhere. Don't suggest scientists can't do objective research with funding from biased sources, otherwise we're left with nothing.

I fail to see why this piece of research is not of wider interest. In fact, it seems to spark irritation. That's interesting. Clearly there's a desire to roll out a new narrative and silence anyone who gets in the way. Robust discussion, eh. Only if you're being robust in the right direction, it seems.

Take away this word 'mongering' and climbdad hasn't done anything but give some helpful information at a critical moment in our progress through this pandemic.

Influenza is one of the most studied diseases in the world. I mean, seriously, we based the UK’s pandemic response around influenza. So many studies, research projects & ongoing surveillance - we have data going back 100 years. We really know what flu & its complications do, in both severe & mild cases.

I'm still not clear what action the average mumsnetter is supposed to take on any of this. 4 threads currently running, what is it you want people to do?

I understand perfectly. He/she wants this information in the public domain. Knowledge is always good. We have a government who have stopped inviting scientists to stand with them at key moments because their advice is not aligned with what we're being advised to do. Hence the need for knowledge in the public domain - what knowledge there is. What you do with it is up to you. Hopefully not head to a beach in Blackpool...just a guess.

If Swedish citizens hadn't used their personal knowledge to make different decisions to government guidelines, their death toll would be considerably higher. Always good. And less scary in the long run.

The government misled people by saying the disease is mild, and it’s a perception that has stuck until today.

I am zero fan of the U.K. government but on what basis did they “mislead” about the severity of the virus? It was a brand new novel virus. No one knew anything when it first emerged. How could someone advise about long term impacts when the virus hadn’t been around long term?

You want kids who have already had their education seriously disrupted to have half an education and wear masks. Fine. You don’t need to post endless threads all saying the same thing. Go and do something productive to try and lobby for that.

These types of posts cause so much anxiety.
I’m deleting MN, I honestly can’t cope with anymore stress, my DC has a cardiac condition and I’m finding it hard to be balanced.

I disagree. The OP has repeatedly made it clear that they do not consider that schools should return at full capacity in September and that children and staff in schools should wear masks. The posts seem designed to prove to mumsnet that these actions are appropriate and necessary.

Mumsnet are not in charge of school return policy. Is the OP hoping to halving use posters to try and persuade Boris/Gavin/schools that masks should be used? If not what are they hoping for?

P.s I have never been to Blackpool.

The studies referenced in these posts are in the public domain already so that cannot be the motivation for the threads.