Cardiac Damage Even in Mild Cases

[ClimbDad]

Two studies of COVID-19 sufferers show serious damage to the heart, even in mild and asymptomatic cases. 78% of people had damage in one study, which specifically excluded anyone who’d previously been diagnosed with a heart condition. 2/3rds of people in the study were never hospitalised with COVID19, and were classed as mild or asymptomatic cases who’d recovered at home.

“These were relatively young, healthy patients who fell ill in the spring, Valentina Puntmann, who led the MRI study, pointed out in an interview. Many of them had just returned from ski vacations. None of them thought they had anything wrong with their hearts.”

Dirk Westermann, a cardiologist at the University Heart and Vascular Centre in Hamburg, said in an interview. “We don’t know the long-term consequences of the changes in gene expression yet. I know from other diseases that it’s obviously not good to have that increased level of inflammation.”

Taken together, the two studies, published Monday in JAMA Cardiology, suggest that in many patients, Covid-19 could presage heart failure, a chronic, progressive condition in which the heart’s ability to pump blood throughout the body declines. It is too soon to say if the damage in patients recovering from Covid-19 is transient or permanent, but cardiologists are worried.“

78%, not 1%, not even 7%. 78% with heart problems. These complications are not rare. I don’t understand why so many people on MN are willing to gamble their long-term health and the health of friends and family.

If schools are to open with normal class sizes in September, students and teachers must wear masks. The long-term human and economic cost of this virus is only just starting to become clear. We need to do everything possible to minimise transmission.

www.statnews.com/2020/07/27/covid19-concerns-about-lasting-heart-damage/

The idea that all of us are sleep walking around, wilfully putting our children and other people at risk is offensive

1. No-one has said this.
2. How could it be offensive?

@TheSunIsStillShining

Sunshinegirl82 "Your concern that you are the only one who truly understands and everyone else just isn't seeing the "truth"....." Please tell me that everyone is perfectly capable of assessing the risks of an unknown virus and it's effect... Oh wait, people are flying all over for very selfish reasons, not wearing masks because they are ok and don't care....

The population en masse are idiots and yes I think scaring them might be the only way. But for many even that doesn't work.

I honestly don't get how having airplanes in the sky equates to "it's fine to go on a holiday". We have wells yet still don't jump in them....

Well here.

Yes, I think it's offensive to the vast majority of perfectly decent people who are genuinely doing their best in very difficult circumstances to balance lots of different risks to both themselves and their children!

There is so much judgement. It's divisive and I don't think it's helping.

There is so much judgement. It's divisive and I don't think it's helping

So not like your posts, then.

I am genuinely concerned, so shoot me!

I am a huge critic of this government but there is a reason Boris flies high in the polls despite all the lies and Dominic Cummings, and the bullshit about Brexit. It's because he doesn't make people feel like idiots. That's probably Trump's winning strategy too.

Had covid
Been investigated for my palpitations I now have.
Breathing in hurts

My friend also had covid, was rushed into hospital with new af . Heart rate was 170+ he collapsed in the bathroom. 3 lots of digoxin to sort it out.

Next friend also had covid is now reliant on inhalers for her breathing.

A ctpa will show lung damage from covid
Even an echo has shown mild heart damage
People had strokes and dvt, people within diabetic ranges when before no history of diabetes.

It's called a novel virus for a reason. We don't know for sure the long term effects.

My sats this morning were 94-95% my heart rate is 96.
I'm 5 weeks post covid.
Before I had no issues like this.

Yes and I know quite a few people who have had it who had mild symptoms, recovered with no on going health issues.

Alex50 Exactly right. I also know of more than 1 person who had it very seriously and have recovered without any ongoing health issues.

I also have a child with complex learning needs who was denied an education in mainstream as it wasn’t convenient.

Every day I get out of bed I may encounter a deadly event.

This research was based on 100 patients, average age 49. A third of whom were hospitalised for Covid.

I read the paper and I do think it's interesting and important but they seem to say very little about the comparison to the controls. They have a graph showing that the Covid group did do worse on all measures than the control (though they've included both a 'healthy' control and a 'risk-matched', ie actually like the sample, control which muddies the water as the former group are both doing much better and totally irrelevant). What they don't do, unless I missed it, is tell us how many of the control group would be considered to have damage, using the same criteria as they determine that 78% of the Covid patients do. I may be being cynical but I suspect that that makes their findings look less significant and that's why it isn't highlighted, given the prominence they give to the 78%.

"The infection is still depicted ..as only affecting the elderly and those with a chronic condition, while “healthy” people would have no or brief symptoms...evidence is emerging that for a significant proportion of those infected this isn't true"

"What is now becoming clear is that mortality is not the only adverse outcome of this infection and our surveillance systems must keep up and reflect that. I am advocating for precise case definitions for covid-19 morbidity that reflect the degree of severity of infection and allow us to measure moderate and long term health and wellbeing outcomes. At this stage of the pandemic, it is vital that we accurately measure and count all degrees of infection, not only in research cohorts, but as part of population-based routine surveillance systems. This includes people like me who were not tested at the time of their initial infection. Death is not the only thing to count in this pandemic, we must count lives changed. We still know very little about covid-19, but we do know that we cannot fight what we do not measure. "

Nisreen A Alwan, Associate Professor in Public Health at the University of Southampton and an Honorary Consultant of Public Health at University Hospital Southampton NHS Foundation Trust writing in the BMJ.

blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/07/28/nisreen-a-alwan-what-exactly-is-mild-covid-19/

Why do you keep posting all this?

What do you expect people to do? It’s a new virus and can cause long term health problems. We have to just keep what we’re doing and try to keep infections low and live with it.

I see a small scale study that hasnt been peer reviewed, by a researcher with a conflict of interests. Being deliberately wrapped up into a scare story on Mumsnet. Hope that helps.

There was an interesting piece on radio 4 the other day discussing the publishing of papers prior to peer review. The point being made was that the number of papers withdrawn after retrospective peer review was negligible.

I think that it is an important point that OP is making. The government and media I think have done a lot to encourage people to think it is only vulnerable people who need to be worried. And this is so the rest of us don’t panic and the country continues to operate normally to an extent. But more discussion needs to be had on unknown long term problems and the fact that some even mild cases have poor outcome. Many people I know seem very blasé about it all and people should be taking more care in my opinion to avoid a second wave. I really think foreign holidays should be bottom of everyone’s priority right now. This is how it spreads

God knows why I’ve chosen to read this. Tested positive 3 months ago, through not fault of my own, I was being bloody careful and following the bloody rules as best I could! At no point did I think myself super human and it wouldn’t affect me.
Now scaring myself silly again that I’m going to drop dead any moment with a heart attack!
Luckily for me I took part in a covid study mapping all of the major organs and neither my heart or lungs show any sign of damage - maybe I’m in the lucky 20%.
I know it’s my own choice to click on an open threads but I constant stream of finding only articles that point out the negatives doesn’t help anyone - I’m not sure what I could have done differently to have avoided the illness.

@AnguaResurgam

Yes, stable on medication, and further investigations will be taking place in case he needs an operation.

The possibility of lengthy debilitating illness (there's a long running support thread for MNers who have found themselves in that position) and/or complications (mainly compromise to heart, lung and kidney function) isn't really discussed much in the mainstream media.

It's not discussed because Boris wants everyone back in the office

@SirBale

God knows why I’ve chosen to read this. Tested positive 3 months ago, through not fault of my own, I was being bloody careful and following the bloody rules as best I could! At no point did I think myself super human and it wouldn’t affect me. Now scaring myself silly again that I’m going to drop dead any moment with a heart attack! Luckily for me I took part in a covid study mapping all of the major organs and neither my heart or lungs show any sign of damage - maybe I’m in the lucky 20%. I know it’s my own choice to click on an open threads but I constant stream of finding only articles that point out the negatives doesn’t help anyone - I’m not sure what I could have done differently to have avoided the illness.

Ah bless you, some people don't realise the anxiety they can cause with posts like this. Wow but how fab you are part of that study, that must be very reassuring. I would take more notice of that, than posts like this!

@Lostnameperson

There was an interesting piece on radio 4 the other day discussing the publishing of papers prior to peer review. The point being made was that the number of papers withdrawn after retrospective peer review was negligible.

The dexamethasone paper was published before being peer reviewed wasn't it?

Yes, it was. Do you mean the one for hydroxychloroquine that was later retracted?

Lots of papers have been published early during Covid, I suppose because it’s such a fast moving situation and there probably aren’t enough experts around to review all these quickly.

I think the long term effects are certainly covered by MSM @annabel85 @AnguaResurgam
Here is a photo of the first page of a list of mainstream articles you get if you google ‘long Covid’.
In addition the government have recently launched a whole new NHS service focusing on this so I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s being ignored.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53291925

@Jrobhatch29 @SengaStrawberry

Thanks both for your replies. I know it was my choice to read threads like this but @ClimbDad I hope you realise the impact constant threads like this have on the mental well being of those that have caught covid.

As I teacher, I’m trying to understand and appreciate what you are trying to achieve with the constant threads pointing out the worse possible scenarios out there. But please also understand the impact that constant focus on negatives reports have. I don’t believe the MSM have played down the seriousness of the at all the language still focuses on jumps and spikes etc.

@Lostnameperson

Yes, it was. Do you mean the one for hydroxychloroquine that was later retracted?

Lots of papers have been published early during Covid, I suppose because it’s such a fast moving situation and there probably aren’t enough experts around to review all these quickly.

No the initial study that showed the benefits of dexamethasone. Im sure it was initially released before it had been peer reviewed because I saw lots of doctors discussing it on line and requesting that full studies be released quickly so that changes in practice could be considered.

Any and every virus, even the common cold, can cause transient or temporary myocarditis.

@GrumpyHoonMain

Any and every virus, even the common cold, can cause transient or temporary myocarditis.

But not in these numbers surely?

I'm awaiting referral to a respiratory consultant. Urgent referral made at the beginning of February and I was speaking to my cardiologist recently who was explaining that they are just so busy with patients post Covid infection that other referrals are being pushed down the waiting list.

So yes, other viruses can potentially cause cardiac issues but the sheer numbers involved is concerning isn't it?