Cardiac Damage Even in Mild Cases

[ClimbDad]

Two studies of COVID-19 sufferers show serious damage to the heart, even in mild and asymptomatic cases. 78% of people had damage in one study, which specifically excluded anyone who’d previously been diagnosed with a heart condition. 2/3rds of people in the study were never hospitalised with COVID19, and were classed as mild or asymptomatic cases who’d recovered at home.

“These were relatively young, healthy patients who fell ill in the spring, Valentina Puntmann, who led the MRI study, pointed out in an interview. Many of them had just returned from ski vacations. None of them thought they had anything wrong with their hearts.”

Dirk Westermann, a cardiologist at the University Heart and Vascular Centre in Hamburg, said in an interview. “We don’t know the long-term consequences of the changes in gene expression yet. I know from other diseases that it’s obviously not good to have that increased level of inflammation.”

Taken together, the two studies, published Monday in JAMA Cardiology, suggest that in many patients, Covid-19 could presage heart failure, a chronic, progressive condition in which the heart’s ability to pump blood throughout the body declines. It is too soon to say if the damage in patients recovering from Covid-19 is transient or permanent, but cardiologists are worried.“

78%, not 1%, not even 7%. 78% with heart problems. These complications are not rare. I don’t understand why so many people on MN are willing to gamble their long-term health and the health of friends and family.

If schools are to open with normal class sizes in September, students and teachers must wear masks. The long-term human and economic cost of this virus is only just starting to become clear. We need to do everything possible to minimise transmission.

www.statnews.com/2020/07/27/covid19-concerns-about-lasting-heart-damage/

Some other threads have lacked credible evidence,
but this is about a published & peer-reviewed study in JAMA Cardiology

tbh, I was shocked reading it

@lughnasadh thank you. I come across a little aggressive I know. I do take some comments too personally.

I do think that this is a possible complication, but that the percentage stated can't be accurately verified in as much as how many people develop it, as we don't test everyone (plenty are asymptomatic or don't get symptoms) amongst other things. Whilst it's a worrying development, I don't think the risk is as high as it seems (if that makes sense). One of my friends' DH though is being monitored for damage to his heart, it was written off as post viral damage because he was never tested for covid (he had no symptoms until his heart caused him to collapse). He is more or less fine now, but still has to have check ups.

There is a natural tendency to minimise / avoid looking at nasty stuff in a lot of people, we've seen it every step of the way in this pandemic. It's extremely likely that covid will result in many conditions we didn't know about initially and it's good to be informed about complications. I don't see this as scaremongering, some posters here need to toughen up! OP has posted a lot of this sort of thing true but I'm grateful as it's always well researched.

[quote AProperScientist]@ClimbDad Almost certainly transient in most cases. Stop posting inaccurate, scaremongering thread headlines. It's soooooooo Daily Express.

I think you must be a teacher (which is rather worrying) as you seem obsessed with kids and teachers wearing face masks.

I suggest meditation might help with your health anxiety.[/quote]
I have no personal anxiety about COVID-19. My circumstances give me no cause for concern, but I am worried others are utterly misjudging this virus and the risk it poses. We still don’t understand it, but we’re learning things about it that are very troubling.

Astonishing aspersions cast on the poster instead of dealing with what he actually posts about.

@TheVanguardSix

I don't understand the aversion to what the poster has stated. I mean, isn't it common knowledge that many viruses lead to long-term compications, cancer being the most common outcome of all? Covid is likely a vascular disease. It is going to damage the heart. If you don't want to read about this, you don't have to. As we went into lockdown, I was blue-lighted after collapsing on the street with a heart attack (cardiac arrest, even- that was fun, not that I remember it). I am a non-smoking, non-drinking, cycling, dog walking, healthy 48-year-old woman. Why did I develop inflammation which led to an artery tear which then formed a flap of skin blocking my artery 100% bringing about a heart attack and cardiac arrest? Was it COVID, my cardiologist (didn't have one of those in my life a few months ago) is now wondering? I wasn't tested at the time because in March, the idea of it being a blood vessel disease hadn't become a way of thinking. I'll be taking an antibody test and it will be interesting to see the results. It is likely that this isn't COVID related but it's worth exploring.

Very sorry to hear that and the experience of @Kitcat122

People might be cruel enough to try to minimise your experiences as anecdotal, but I’m not sure how anyone who claims to be interested in facts and science can wilfully ignore a peer reviewed study published in one of the world’s most respected medical journals.

@echt

Astonishing aspersions cast on the poster instead of dealing with what he actually posts about.

Yeah. It’s hard to argue with such well evidenced scientific findings. Much easier to make unsubstantiated allegations of scaremongering.

If you’re about to make a snide remark about me rather than the subject, maybe take a moment to think about what you’re doing. You have the Internet at your disposal. Disprove the findings of the Frankfurt study with equally rigorous peer reviewed science and you will put a lot of people’s minds at rest. Including mine.

If you’re about to make a snide remark about me rather than the subject, maybe take a moment to think about what you’re doing

I was not having pop at you. Far from it.

[quote Sunshinegirl82]@ClimbDad

Your concern that you are the only one who truly understands and everyone else just isn't seeing the "truth" as you see it doesn't suggest a healthy mindset to me.

Focussing only on the most negative elements of the current situation that you can find and catastrophising (and trying desperately to get other people to "see" your worst case scenario is a certainty) doesn't suggest a healthy mind set.

You might not believe that you are anxious but your posting history is not suggestive of someone who is approaching this situation in a balanced way and is able to assess all evidence rationally. [/quote]
80% of previously healthy people developed cardiac damage. Perhaps you could share the positive spin on this because it eludes me?

I’m flattered you’re worried about my state of mind, but that corrosive tactic won’t work. Instead of disproving the science you call the messenger’s credibility into question, attempting to silence through embarrassment.

Instead of questioning my state of mind or credibility, focus on the subject and disprove the evidence based science.

@echt

If you’re about to make a snide remark about me rather than the subject, maybe take a moment to think about what you’re doing

I was not having pop at you. Far from it.

I know. Sorry @echt the second part of that message wasn’t aimed at you. Didn’t make that clear. Aimed at those who think they can insult and discredit their way out of a pandemic.

I’m concerned about whether these effects on the heart could be even more pronounced in people with pre-existing issues. The kind of conditions I have in mind are relatively harmless things that are quite common, such as heart palpitations, but could this sort of thing be exacerbated by Covid?

What informed decisions do we need to be making OP?
Well aware there’s a pandemic. I’ve been shielding. How on Earth will online research help me in the slightest?
I really can’t see what point you’re trying to make.

Hi all, and thanks for the reports. We've deleted some posts that cross the line into personal attacks on this thread. Please do try to address the point and not the person, and continue to report anything you'd like us to take a look at.
Peace and love,
MNHQ

Yeah, it's all a bit shit, but there we go, it's out there now. If you can afford it, why not employ remote tutors and stay indoors? If you can't, then give up work and homeschool? If not that either, then yes, absorb the fact that a new virus is out there and a lot of us are going to catch it, hardly anyone is going to die, for some it might have long lasting effects. What are you going to do with that info if you can't afford to live off savings in a remote farmstead?
As a country we decided our path by mid March. There is no putting the genie back in the bottle that doesn't involve even more deaths by economic depression.
It does look like comparisons with polio might be most accurate, in terms of debilitating side effects for some
I genuinely think some people should focus on emigrating if they can't live with it being out there. New Zealand will probably stay safe. Guernsey. Other small islands. Maybe places in Asia that have been exposed to similar before and have resistance (my guess, not fact)

78% of who?
Hospitalised patients?
A random sample of all people who tested positive for COVID-19 in random testing?
How are they defining ‘mild’?

Dr Xand has has problems too. I think he was in pretty good shape before.

I have a minor heart condition so I'm going to keep an eye on this.

Sunshinegirl82
"Your concern that you are the only one who truly understands and everyone else just isn't seeing the "truth"....."
Please tell me that everyone is perfectly capable of assessing the risks of an unknown virus and it's effect...
Oh wait, people are flying all over for very selfish reasons, not wearing masks because they are ok and don't care....

The population en masse are idiots and yes I think scaring them might be the only way. But for many even that doesn't work.

I honestly don't get how having airplanes in the sky equates to "it's fine to go on a holiday". We have wells yet still don't jump in them....

I have spent a significant proportion of time researching the virus and listening to the opinions of lots of experts often with diametrically opposed views on the virus generally and its effects.

The idea that all of us are sleep walking around, wilfully putting our children and other people at risk is offensive.

Not unique to covid-19 though is it. I know one person with post viral fatigue from one of the many other viruses that has circulated for years - hasn't been able to work for 18 months. Another in his 30s heart damage about 5 years ago from again a bog standard virus.

There are a lot of perfect people on mumsnet it seems. Would I go on holiday now, probably not. Do I judge people that do? Not really, no.

The transport secretary is currently in Spain. I don't think it's fair to call people stupid for not thinking that it's probably ok to go away.