Are we a couple of weeks behind Spain and France?

[BKCRMP]

If Spain is v.likely in a second wave and France not far behind them does that mean we are also heading straight in to one again?

Will schools open regardless this September?

54 mins in is classrooms

A couple of articles re Spain’s reporting in case you need them

www.google.com/amp/s/english.elpais.com/society/2020-06-24/the-problems-spains-outdated-data-methods-have-caused-during-a-21st-century-pandemic.html%3FoutputType%3Damp

www.ft.com/content/77eb7a13-cd26-41dd-9642-616708b43673

At v least kids need masks!

@ballsdeep

To the poster who said it feels like early march, it does to me too.

It's like watching it happen all around the world and praying it doesn't happen to us and then boom! I'm certainly not wishing for a second wave. I'm a teacher and desperately want things to go back to normal and children to be back in school. However, September is a long time away so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I wouldn't be surprised if teachers all have to wear masks

Its awful for deaf people but there are visible masks. still not ideal but better than covered masks or illness.

It doesn’t matter how much people try or want to jump on me. I am glad children are back to school, my colleagues are glad. I feel safe, I feel that our setting has adapted to the ‘new normal’ in a safe way for everyone.

I think currently, in general children are at risk of more harm being at home permanently than at school. MN posters in general have a very linear view of the real world.

In the real world, I’ve yet to see anyone who works in education kicking off about going back, it’s just not happening. People are getting on with it and are looking forward to going back to some kind of normal. I only see these really strong views on MN and in the tabloids.

It’s ok to work in a school and feel positive about going back, not hysterical and demanding schools stay online forever more. That doesn’t mean people haven’t assessed risk or make them a bad educator. People are allowed to be ok with it!

There will never be another national lockdown. No country can afford it - France and ROI have even stated this.

There will not be anymore furlough after October.

There might be local lockdowns so it will be 2 weeks without pay or you can take it out of your holiday allowance.

Schools will be going back full time after the holidays. You can’t deprive a generation of their fundamental human right to an education

I have been on Mumsnet for 15 yrs and after this post I will be deleting the app. You see more balanced posts on the Daily Mail.

Scottish schools go back next month. Good.

I personally worry about all the older at risk teachers who have spent a lifetime educating who are walking into an environment which they have been misled about by our Government’s ridiculous guidelines for opening

Not just the older staff, many younger people get it badly and have long term side effects from it.

School staff should be afforded the same Covid safe workplaces as everyone else. There are plenty of ways to educate children without endangering lives and children are the responsibility of their parents not the teachers.

@Oaktree55 (Haven’t watched the video yet) I desperately want schools open but agree with you that the current plan is madness & teachers have not been given the right information. I was speaking to a teacher friend who talked me through all the steps in her school, wiping down stationary, the spacing in the classroom etc, cleaning this, wiping that, sanitising hands etc. All good hygiene practice but woefully inadequate given that the latest research shows it’s airborne transmission not fomites that drives transmission.
But she didn’t know, there had been no discussion of that & she looked completely blindsided when I mentioned masks. I just feel we’re sleepwalking into a disaster with current policy, esp in those secondaries where the school layouts do not accommodate spacing in corridors etc & inadequate toilet facilities.
It’s not scaremongering to raise these concerns - head in the sand isn’t going to fix this. There are steps we can take to make schools safer & I don’t understand why people are so resistant.

@Itisasecret

It doesn’t matter how much people try or want to jump on me. I am glad children are back to school, my colleagues are glad. I feel safe, I feel that our setting has adapted to the ‘new normal’ in a safe way for everyone.

I think currently, in general children are at risk of more harm being at home permanently than at school. MN posters in general have a very linear view of the real world.

In the real world, I’ve yet to see anyone who works in education kicking off about going back, it’s just not happening. People are getting on with it and are looking forward to going back to some kind of normal. I only see these really strong views on MN and in the tabloids.

It’s ok to work in a school and feel positive about going back, not hysterical and demanding schools stay online forever more. That doesn’t mean people haven’t assessed risk or make them a bad educator. People are allowed to be ok with it!

I am a teacher too and none of my work colleagues go on the way they do on MN either! Absolutely no hysterics, just getting on with it!

I know Mac12, all the cleaning etc doesn’t stop airborne transmission which is the main way it’s caught.

Exactly! That’s my point. It’s appalling how the majority are treating teaching staff. If I were a teacher I’d be tempted to throw in the towel given the lack of respect and appreciation the majority seem to show.

I agree, if staff and kids decide to go back in September they should do so having been made aware of all the facts so that decision is informed.

Where are these hysterical posts people are referring to?

I agree. I don’t know a single teacher in real life who is refusing to go back/wants masks/be online forever. My dd school has a mix of old and new buildings, all the usual issues and they are finding solutions that I trust will work for them. They are an intelligent bunch! Let them get on with it. Any adult who feels unable to work in that situation can prob make very good money from online teaching instead at the mo!

Oaktree, I recall a comment back when schools closed re not caring about school staff and just wanting children back at school.

It stuck with me as I have great respect for school staff and the job they do and they have every right to deserve to be as safe as possible.

I wonder how many would go back to a packed office with no SD, PPE for seven hours a day and not be complaining.

People are getting on with it

Of course. Every non-shielding member of staff has been in full-time since the start of June where I work. We have 'just got on with it', done our best to enforce bubbles and social distancing and toilet use rotas, put on our best happy faces for the children and our colleagues, accepted how good it is for the children to be in school.

That doesn't mean that, underneath our 'smiley work faces', we aren't worried - especially us over 50s with underlying conditions. That we aren't concerned for our shielding colleagues who will have to return in September. That we don't look at our insanely crowded classrooms set up for September and count the few cm of distance between each child. That we don't count the toilets and sinks, calculate the throughput that there will have to be for decent hand hygiene and despair. That we are happy to see our pupils, and their parents, mixing freely, travelling abroad and chatting about childcare with grandma.

It is perfectly possible to both be looking forward to starting September with a semblance of normality, in particular relieving our constant worries about the safety of certain children, and wondering how long that normality will last. To both be planning exciting start of term activities and timetabling in training on new home learning tools. To both be hoping for the best and planning for the worst....

@mrshoho

Where are these hysterical posts people are referring to?

Have you been on mumsnet recently? Not specifically this thread, but the hysteria has been ramping up massively again!

I feel safe at school, that is allowed.
Same here. I wash my hands a lot even in normal times because of norovirus, flu etc. We just need to practice sensible hygiene and get in with it. I have no qualms about going back since pretty much everyone I know had the symptoms back in March and no serious outcomes. Even if we are not immune, no reason to think a second fuse would be more severe. I suspect my SLT might make it optional for children to wear masks if they suffer from anxiety (or their parents have frenzied then into being scared.
We need to stop being terrified of this virus -there are massive leaps forward on treatment. Em for this those who are hospitalised. And those who continue to bank oh about ventilators clearly haven't bothered to keep pace with developments.

Personally I think that if this does go on long term, there will have to be some kind of system where the people who claim not to be able to wear a mask due to various issues (trigeminal neuralgia, autism, history of abuse, for example) will need to be assessed on a case by case basis to separate them from people who are basically being deliberately difficult. There are so many dreadful examples of people being accosted, quizzed & verbally abused in shops, hospitals etc by individuals & staff due to not wearing a mask, & lots of people not wearing masks, coughing & sneezing everywhere, who could probably do so (or should go home & stop spreading their germs!)

There also needs to be better, more joined-up efforts to help those stuck at home for whatever reason. Not restrict it to the fairly narrow list previously given out. Unless the government wants people quarantining to go shopping, or those unable to wear masks to face daily abuse. Currently it's a postcode lottery & we've nothing locally. Goodness knows what we'll do if one of us catches it.

And YY to what @flowerycurtain said at 22:33. Why TF are pubs & restaurants being prioritised over the education & mental health of children? How does the government think that many of these workers think they will be able to work anyway, with their children not in school? Ludicrous.

I’d feel safe if there were 25% of two year groups in school being taught in stable groups of 8. This will not be the case in September. I’m not hysterical about it but I’m not kidding myself that it’s safe

You can wash your hands to a hundred rounds of happy birthday but you still have to breathe in. This is the main reason the current school opening plans are madness. Schools need PPE just like other indoor settings. That isn’t being hysterical, it’s working with the science to minimise risk & keeps school open.

Why TF are pubs & restaurants being prioritised over the education & mental health of children?

Another one misunderstanding this. In what way have they been prioritised, other than for some establishments being able to operate safely?

@mac12

You can wash your hands to a hundred rounds of happy birthday but you still have to breathe in. This is the main reason the current school opening plans are madness. Schools need PPE just like other indoor settings. That isn’t being hysterical, it’s working with the science to minimise risk & keeps school open.

😆. I’m hoping those posts from “teachers” saying it’s all fine, we’re safe, we’ll just practise good hygiene are fake. If they are actually teaching staff then quite frankly the kids aren’t going to get much of an education from them 😳.

Oaktree

Sadly, from observations of how closely my colleagues were adhering to the risk assessment about all windows and doors open for airflow by the end of last half term, I would say that many teachers (particularly low-risk younger teachers) are not taking the airborne nature of the risk particularly seriously....

I think one of the difficulties is that it is human nature to relax over time, especially in a familiar environment.

Honestly, you click on a thread expecting a discussion about France and Spain and yet again it’s been taken over by rows about schools.