Are we a couple of weeks behind Spain and France?

[BKCRMP]

If Spain is v.likely in a second wave and France not far behind them does that mean we are also heading straight in to one again?

Will schools open regardless this September?

If you are taking kids to school you can not sling them on the back of your bike and then rock off immediately to work

Why not if just a seat on the back? I rode with it empty.

I know businesses would be impacted if they had delayed opening them until after schools could go back safely but businesses will be impacted when schools are forced to close again due to massive numbers getting infected. Anything that could be run outside and socially distanced should have been allowed to resume. Many people could have adapted their businesses. Those that couldn’t could have been given support. We shouldn’t be doing anything inside yet with our numbers.

Why not if just a seat on the back? I rode with it empty.

Youve got three kids. One age 4, one age 6 and one age 8.

Good luck.

And by that I mean businesses that are seen as leisure businesses such as gyms, restaurants, pubs etc.

People will find issues but a huge amount of people cycle to work in London. And seem to go fast. The main barrier for many is safety, I’d love to see this change.

Well I had one obviously

You said slung them on the back of the bike You meant attach something

They can walk next to you. I see so many doing it here but people will find issues no matter what.

Sling.

The moaning when something is positive is bleh.

@MarshaBradyo

People will find issues but a huge amount of people cycle to work in London. And seem to go fast. The main barrier for many is safety, I’d love to see this change.

But London isn't Manchester. Nor a less metropolitan provisional town.

There is an integrated transport strategy which covers a suitable area and provides a variety of options. Cycle lanes are maintained. There arent country lanes to think about in the same way.

As it goes the current reason DH wasn't cycling is that his new job is closer but doesn't have a suitable secure area to store his bike and doesn't have changing facilities for the days hes soaked to the skin and black from road spray. Hes had complains from other staff about the smell from his damp clothing as theres no where to put it. That made him really uncomfortable and has damaged his motivation to cycle.

@MarshaBradyo

You said slung them on the back of the bike You meant attach something

They can walk next to you. I see so many doing it here but people will find issues no matter what.

My point is cycling isnt a solution to many and the government strategy is blind to a lot of issues that help a cycling strategy.

But London is the worst argument ever as everyone outside london is sick of it and have less money per head for big cycling schemes and has a very different lifestyle.

Parents cant just cycle to school and then rock off to work. Schools are further from people's homes for starters.

I just want regional specific issues acknowledging and thought about rather than dismissed as 'moaning'.

Good management is based on: See problem. Acknowledge problem. Solve problem. Or at least acknowledge there are barriers to some which mean solution has gap. Not 'oh shut up moaning there is no problem'.

I get that personal experiences affect us. Dh was hit by a car and I stopped strapping my toddler onto a bike and he stopped and our bikes got rusty in the shed.

In London it’s often a bit far to walk to work, eg zone 2 and beyond, but cycling is a great option. Until you read the weekly stats.

Perhaps change in London will become an influence on other cities. Maybe not enough money for big change but starting somewhere is better than not at all.

Maybe a London will be the test case for health savings and lower pollution. Although list transport money and stop hitting us.

Of course point out what extra is needed to get closer to the right solution. But school run can be overcome, I see it done by many here. SE London has quite a biking vibe.

Lost

Lastly the reason i dont cycle is partly because commuter cycling is something i dont have the same ability to do as DH due to my physical size and being a woman. Also as he points out is that safe road cycling is in part about confidence. He has to have confidence to have a good road position so hes seen by cars, and he frequently sees much more timid women cyclists off to the side in blind spots because they lack this confidence.

So basically, women are shit cyclists.

I'm almost 50, a woman and a cyclist living here in London. I've cycled for years. My kids ride. It's just how we get around. The expansion of cycle lanes is more good than bad. And people have to learn at some point. Becoming a cycling city, to me, will be a bumpy transition, but it's so worth it in the long-run. I haven't driven a car in 15 years. I can't remember the last time I took a bus. So I can't fill my boot with a warehouse full of food from Costco. Big deal. I don't miss a car. We need to be less reliant on them.

You lost me at 'I don't cycle'. Yet you're an expert based on your misogynistic husband's views.
Maybe the damsel in distress at the side of the road your husband claims to see is just a (female) cyclist) pumping a tyre or patching a hole, not some female lacking in confidence but just a person dealing with a flat. Wow. The veil of misogyny in your thread, which is based on your DH's opinions since you don't cycle, makes it impossible to want to engage. I can't get past the fact that you don't cycle. So if you're not on these cycle lanes yourself, how can you possibly have such strong views about them?

Yes, we are a couple of weeks behind Spain and France because we are following their policies, just like we did in the first wave, and look where that got us.
Why can't the UK, and England specifically, follow the policies of countries that have had better success with Covid-19, rather than the countries that also totally messed up? The government need to look at countries that had far fewer cases and far fewer deaths, not those countries that were nearly as bad as us. Once again we are following the wrong policies and not taking advantage of being a couple/few weeks behind with the benefit of not making the same mistakes. The first time around, the government seemed to think that the shambles in Spain, France and Italy couldn't happen in the UK, but it did, and it was slightly worse. Now is the time for the government to properly look at countries that have performed better.

In terms of cycling, I don't think bikes and cars are a safe mix on roads. I would love to cycle on local journeys, but won't do so unless there are cycle paths. I know lycra-wearing long-distance high-speed cyclists won't use any new cycle lanes because they prefer the speed of cars, but there are millions of people who use their cars to drive a couple of miles when they would cycle if it were safe to do so. For these cyclists, even shared pavement use along less busy routes would be better than mixing with cars. I remember visiting Germany 30 years ago - the town I was in had cycle paths everywhere. We cycled several miles to school solely on cycle paths running alongside the roads. In those 30 years, nowhere I have lived in the UK has ever done anything similar. Even on A roads, there are often footpaths running alongside that have very little use by pedestrians that could easily be made dual-use with cyclists with very little impact on the few pedestrians interested in walking next to a 50-60mph A road.

I've very sceptical of that. If even Manchester is considerably behind London in terms of being cycling friendly, then what's the hope for the likes of Sunderland?

Woeful lack of public transport outside the major cities means that having a car isn't realistic for most people. And if they have a car sitting there and being paid for, then why would they get soaked on a bike as a commute?

If it’s harder to get people out of their cars in Sunderland does it mean we shouldn’t change in London where it’s easier? And one main barrier is safety.

Some people will drive no matter what, mindset as much as anything. In some cities positive change will have marked impact.

No I'm not saying that at all.

The reality is that the difference between how fast he can cycle into Manchester (because of what his top speed is) and how fast I or any other woman could do it (taking into consideration the top speed of professional women cyclists) means that a daily commute into central Manchester is considerably less viable from where we live. He can do it faster than he can drive it in rush hour. For me to cycle it, it would take several hours!!!!

And yes unfortunately confidence DOES come into it and that IS socially ingrained into a lot of women. Its not DH saying women are shit. He's made a point about how women struggle to assert themselves in the same way on the road because they are physically smaller. He's a strapping 6ft 2 and he is just BIGGER and cars keep more distance. The amount of abuse he has recieved is appalling. Women as a rule, are even bigger targets for it.

His comments are reflecting the problems of sexism and the reality of women not being men and why women do not compete against men in cycling (unless of course they identify as women and push women out of the sport).

So do fuck the hell off.

Are you actually saying that your husband can cycle faster than a top professional female cyclist?

Cycling isnt a solution for many but it doesn't go on the line of male/female.

Red given the issues you describe won’t cycle lanes help get women out then?

Your Dh wants to keep cycling fast in the road but as you say many women do not.

London exists outside zone 3. People living in outer London can't as easily cycle into work in central London, and their children's schools aren't just down the road. Many schools are heavily oversubscribed with London's large population. Many children end up at schools quite some distance away. Minimum wage workers on ten hour days haven't time to cycle their kids to school before work. Also, the majority of workers don't work in large offices with shower facilities or bike storage space.

Londoners also live in flats more often than other parts of the UK. Very often tiny flats with no space to store a bike. They can't store it in communal areas either because of fire regulations.

I think cycling on mass is less feasible in London than in a lower population low traffic area where most people live shorter distances from schools and workplaces.

And lo, everyone is talking about cycling and cycle lanes,not about the fact Johnson locked down a week too late so 20,000 more people died, not about the fact that he's got chuff all in place to stop another shed load of deaths this winter.

That's the point of the announcement, and it works.

I feel sad for our children. Growing up in such uncertainty. Why they didn't plan to gradually welcome kids back is beyond me! They don't show an ounce of care about people and their mental health. People are absolutely full of fear, stress and anxiety. They want us queing up with our kids, banned from going into the playground with them. I personally think part time school and part time home learning. But I appreciate that won't work for people going back to work.

I also think the reception kids shouldn't start in September because what a confusing and daunting way to start school. They would all be better off at home until teachers don't have to fear giving them contact when they need it. Many need help with buttons, toileting and things at that age. Not to mention they havn't had any settling on periods.

It all just upsets me. It's like they don't care now and it's an unlucky dip!

It's going to be another confusing school year and whilst kids that have been in since march have adapted, it's going to very different when they all go back and need support to adjust.

@nellodee

One of my concerns is whether we will have sufficient testing capacity to deal with anyone presenting with covid symptoms. I worry that we will return to a situation where people will not be tested on symptoms alone but will need to evidence contact with a known case. Does anyone know how much spare capacity we have at the moment?

This is what the government is also concerned about. I think we are going to see more and more restrictions throughout the Winter whilst trying to keep schools and businesses going. There appears problems with processing the tests but we're being promised increased capacity from October. 1st today so bloody hope so!