Spain

[MRex]

Their number of cases keep on rising, It looks really concerning now. Have they actually lost control of the outbreaks, as they keep putting bigger areas into lockdown again, or is it genuinely localised? Will UK and other European countries close borders with them soon like France has?

A family member has a job lined up in Spain. I don't know how to interrpret all these statistics..

I would certainly be double checking, and ensuring a water tight contract and health care provisions were in place before I jumped on a plane to work in Spain. The unemployment statistics, especially among the young are truly eye watering and that was before covid.

Thanks, I am getting concerned.

I wasn't aware the vaccine had progressed beyond the trial stages, no. How is its efficacy being measured?

Nor was I aware the government had started to be transparent and was once again releasing figures both of new cases, deaths, and tests carried out.

You'd think all of the above would have been on the news, wouldn't you? Then people may not be so critical at how things are still being handled.

The country has indeed been through a lot. Much of which could have been avoided had the govt looked at countries like Italy and Spain (arguably going through similar, if not worse, but 3 weeks earlier,) and thought "gosh, that might happen here, perhaps we should do something a bit proactive". But, regarding the snowflake comment, you don't see many Spanish or Italians stropping about wearing masks. Obviously, being still 3 weeks give or take further on, in many areas they may not have to anymore.

Randomer- is it seasonal work or something like English teaching? Many language schools are back up and running for example, and certainly will be by September. Obviously your relative will have looked into healthcare etc once Brexit kicks in, otherwise until then they are covered by the equivalent to NI contributions their employer will be paying for them.

@randomer, whereabouts in Spain and what contract? Autonimo? Any help with the SIP card? (NHS) etc? The health service here is absolutely excellent.

There is a lot of things involved in moving to Spain to get set up though.

But coronavirus wise, we are fine/they will be fine. Despite what people read and say. I am so much safer here than in the UK, of that I am certain.

Billie- you certainly are! I know which country's healthcare system I'd rather be under at the moment!

We certainly don't go on about sensory issues and fogged up sunglasses, we just wear masks. We just get on with it. No question.

@SicMundusCreatusEst I agree with your comments too... wholeheartedly!

Sirmic- the Government does release all the figures. They're on here:

coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/

@randomer - the only thing different to normal is that they need to check inclusions in their health policies carefully and get some supplies in early in case of lockdowns.

People who don't think UK numbers are published are so far out of the loop that they probably shouldn't try to comment about what's going on in the UK.

sic Do your own research, I am not going to do it for someone like you. Use google and follow the progress of the vaccine if you want to know.

I am feeling very confident having read through the trials etc at length and the expansion taking place in the next few weeks thanks.

How are Spain getting on with developing a vaccine one might enquire?

How many world class covid treatments have they produced so far?

I can only assume you are very unhappy with your life if you think it is okay to come on an internet forum and insult others.

How did this turn into a nasty my country is better than yours argument?! How pointless.

The issue is not one of health care or lack of randomer although Spanish hospitals were completely overwhelmed in the spring, so I can see why you might be concerned, if the second wave is worse then yes I would agree it may be a problem again. Admittedly we were very fortunate here that we did not experience overwhelmed hospitals or people dying in corridors.

My biggest concern for anyone intending to work in Spain, depending on their line of work (medicine etc might be okay for instance) but anything remotely casual, may simply not be there by the time your relative gets there. The recession is yet to bite, but it certainly will in the next few months and Spain were already in a very fragile position before this happened, so this may well play out alongside a second wave. The covid recovery fund (if it is approved by all national governments) will not feed into the various EU countries until the middle of next year at the earliest. So will simply not be there to prop up the economy for a while yet. It could get very messy in the meantime.

Brexit is also going to be happening at the end of this year, so your relative will need private health care cover - so it is not the best year to be living or working overseas when we look at the combined picture of the two issues along with the economic consequences of both - so I think you are absolutely right to be concerned. I would be waiting a year or two personally.

@SicMundusCreatusEst in addition to the daily updated (tests, cases, hospitalisations & deaths down from a Uk/national/regional & LA level if you click on 'more detail' on any of the graphs) staging site coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/ there's also the weekly in depth surveillance reports which have demographic information including details of out breaks & antibody surveillance, sentinel sampling, areas of particular concerns etc.

I find them really useful if you're interested in that sort of thing! This is week 30, the most recent week.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/903450/Weekly_COVID19_Surveillance_Report_week_30_FINAL_UPDATED.pdf

IMI it's not about one country doing better or worse- it's about observing the factors/changes that drive case rises so that we can learn. Also, people have holidays booked, so it's not unreasonable to look at the local data and restrictions.

Madbird, your comment about Spanish research takes nasty to a level I wouldn't want to be on the same planet as, but is sadly typical of the Little Englander attitude that we are better than those foreigners one inevitably comes across in Brexit Britain. I hope you check that no foreign scientists are working at Imperial or you might catch the foreign in your vaccine eh?

Tory, thank you. I was wondering though if the govt was being any more transparent these days about the numbers (for example, regarding the fact that they count tests which haven't actually been used etc) but seemingly not. I follow the Graphs thread on here and have been since March.

The research at the Spallanzani in Rome is also worth a read for those interested in the science.

I guess it comes down to wether you have faith in UK government and trust their motivation to protect its people.
For me my trust has been eroded to the point that I do not trust this government to make decisions that will protect my family over and above other motives.
As I said up thread the government were very reluctant to introduce guidance on face mask wearing as they believe they've taken any action that will have any substantial impact already under the guise of a half arsed soft lockdown for the absolute minimum time. Face masks were introduced as a placating measure but do not believe they're necessary.
As a family we left as soon as we were able and are in no rush to return.
Statistics are only a small part. I judge a country on how they protect the weakest in society and in this case I abhor this government.
I will wear a mask in the region where I am at all times as is the law, I will wear it to protect others as they wear one to protect me.
That's 'Society' and one I feel fortunate to experience.
And in reference to an earlier poster, I do have first hand access to a policy advisor and it's not a case of a friends sisters uncles brother.

Admittedly we were very fortunate here that we did not experience overwhelmed hospitals or people dying in corridors

No, we let them die alone, at home, in care homes ...anywhere but in the glare of public view.... then there are all the halted treatments & the deaths associated with those.

It was all a PR exercise, so we could look better than Italy or Spain but our death rate shows otherwise, unfortunately, as a nation we are ignoring these and supporting Johnson.

I'm glad you've found somewhere you feel more comfortable living @drivinmecrazy, but it sounds like you've got involved with conspiracy theories or that you're letting your feelings about one person take over your rational assessment. It's stressful times, and clearly there have been some mistakes, but it's useful to take a reality check. Every government has to balance conflicting priorities with opening up the economy and infection rates. Every government takes decisions that not everyone agrees with. Some things have worked and others have not, and we're all sadly still only at the beginning of this pandemic.

Doesn't surprise me, the Spanish lockdown was extremely strict and properly enforced. It's not a surprise that it's now spreading again when their herd immunity is very low. It won't happen in the UK because the lockdown was more relaxed and wasn't taken seriously by a lot of people, so our herd immunity levels are higher

Not sure where or when I've given the impression of espousing or engaging in conspiracy theories.
Horses for courses I guess.

I’ve just seen that map I posted earlier updated with the most recent cases. It might be wrong, it might be misrepresented or it might be complete lies. If how you feel about a government is more important than statistics then it doesn’t really matter I guess.

I feel alarmed by it because 1) of dd’s travel plans 2) the thought of cases rises is depressing & sad particularly somewhere which worked so hard to get them down and 3) I’m under no illusion that it couldn’t/won’t happen here too.

This was yesterday’s before the update - Spain recorded 2,255 new cases of the virus on Friday compared to a daily average of just 132 in June.

@GreyGardens88 - It's more likely that the reason cases are low in countries where they've dropped is because people are continuing to take precautions, no nightclubs / other loud events, offices not back etc. Nobody knows what the immunity levels are anywhere, even at a best case the original Swedish research including T-cell as well as IgG was suggesting 30% immunity, but herd immunity is more like 70%. In the UK IgG tests are below 10% in the weekly reports. Spain may be lower in some areas, but higher in others, it'll be regionally patchy in every country.