Spain

[MRex]

Their number of cases keep on rising, It looks really concerning now. Have they actually lost control of the outbreaks, as they keep putting bigger areas into lockdown again, or is it genuinely localised? Will UK and other European countries close borders with them soon like France has?

Well it may be similar to half term when people went skiing and brought it back, not the fault of Spain but due to all the movement of travellers to and fro.

It will just all come back here again when they return. Like happened then

The right thing to do is just don’t travel abroad this year. It just contributes to spread. If everyone would just stay put in their home country or travel for a holiday close by where they can go by car or masked on a short public transport journey then we would all be a lot better off.

I don’t get why the UK is being so lax on this. In Ireland the policy is no foreign travel unless for essential reasons. It’s not the law but it is deterring a lot of people as it’s government advice. All public sector bodies also have a rule in place that if you travel abroad your are required to take two weeks unpaid leave upon your return to quarantine even if you can work from home to deter people from travelling and many private work places are adopting this policy too. This also applies to anyone on social welfare who won’t receive any payments for two weeks.

It would be good if the UK would implement similar.

Spain has the highest number of excess deaths in Europe, the reported numbers of deaths are only low because they changed their system, again. Now they only report deaths that occurred in the last 36 hours, if the UK did the same? Imagine.

It's really worth looking at dates on that chart as well. Countries at the top have their data fairly up-to-date. Italy is running months behind because that's standard Italian inefficiency. Does anyone think they will have had no excess deaths in May?

@drivinmecrazy
I find it outstanding that there are so many people joining the queue to apportion blame regarding who is or isn't responsible for the rise in numbers here in Spain.
In U.K. we have always been a few weeks behind throughout the pandemic but instead of looking for examples of how U.K. could prepare suddenly we look at other countries and think 'that would never happen here'.
Not joined up thinking.
When is the U.K. going to wake up and smell the coffee.
What is happening locally in Spain will be reflected elsewhere in the coming weeks.
Yet in Spain the reaction to outbreaks is immediate and thorough. I've yet to experience the same in England.
Cases are rising in Spain but on what planet do you think England has the high ground?
I know where I feel safer. To give you a clue it's not in a country that has daily death rates in the hundreds.
Come to Spain, don't come to Spain, I don't care. But don't think for one minute that's UK government has it all under control.
Incidentally I know a policy writer for this Tory government and can tell you they don't care about you. That's the difference, here in Spain there is still such a thing as 'society'
I'm really not sure where you got an idea about "blame" from, but I'm sorry this post has clearly made you so upset. Nobody wants to see cases anywhere. Closing borders isn't about "blame", but reducing spread from an area where cases are rising. You seem to have a view there was no lockdown in the UK and I'm not sure how you think cases dropped so much here in that case, but it's worth knowing that actually there was a lockdown here. Some things have been done differently than in Spain; we let people go out for walks, no nightclubs have opened here etc. Nightclubs are clearly a huge concern because it leads to close contact and shouting to be heard, which made them a huge transmission issue back in March too, and hopefully that lesson can be learned globally.

Incidentally I know a policy writer for this Tory government and can tell you they don't care about you

That's an interesting new twist on "I know someone on the front line in ICU"

Quite incredible Spain allowed nightclubs to re-open.

However, from the ONS.
During the most recent week (13 to 19 July 2020), we estimate there were around 0.52 new COVID-19 infections for every 10,000 people in the community population in England, equating to around 2,800 new cases per day (95% confidence interval: 1,500 to 5,500)

Thats an est 20k per week!!!

I agree with @drivinmecrazy yet again we look on and say ‘what a dire position Spain is in’ thinking we are immune here from any rise in cases...

I don’t think they are in a dire situation. Cases are rising as lockdown continues to ease. There are local outbreaks but not at the 100,000 per day level of the peak. The spread is not being left unchecked as it was in March.

It is clearly to do with bars and nightclubs, maybe restaurant and funerals/ large gatherings. They seem to be tracking, tracing and isolating. This wasn’t happening in March. We are all testing much, much more.

Really, there were bound to be outbreaks and increases in infection as we all start mixing more.

Yes, if foreign travel could be banned then that would stop the spread perhaps but that won’t happen. We are all more aware now.

Spain won’t be unique.

Because of the very high numbers of people with no/mild symptoms, you can't compare extrapolated estimated figures ( as in the ONS infection survey) in one country with confirmed and tested cases in another. Spain is testing less widely than the UK currently ( we were a shambles at the beginning, but not now) so are likely to have at least the same and probably more undetected cases.

The Spanish government were so caring and thoughtful in the way they coped up children with no access to outside space at all during the lockdown as well right?

Wish we had such a caring government as that

And yes there were issues with their recording prior to this I remember as well.

@jasjas1973 - ONS figures have been going steadily down and were always far higher than confirmed cases; the gap between known/ estimated case volume has also been reducing, which should help. Covid Zoe figures are similar. The pace at which they are dropping has reduced so they're levelling off, but they are still much lower. Unknown cases exist in all countries that haven't eliminated coronavirus, if a government knew all the cases then they would be able to fully prevent spread, it isn't unique to the UK.

Ah yes I did not agree with keeping children indoors at all. Awful and so bad for them.

The 2-3 week lag is a concern. If the R rate is over two in some regions by mid to late August Spain will be dealing with a 'second wave' in the middle of peak holiday season.

I really feel for them as they are stuck between a rock and a hard place economically, relying so heavily on tourism.

I am not sure why any country would open nightclubs, that is a mistake, surely it must be a guaranteed method of spreading covid efficiently.

I imagine we will soon see all visitors that have been to Spain having to quarantine, suspending travel to Spain altogether will be a last resort.

We are just about to cancel our trip, we booked it before covid and have been waiting to see how it all pans out, we are so sad about it, but if they lockdown overnight again, we will stranded. They operate full lockdown measures too, I can't think of anything more stressful with dc.

It is not possible to obtain travel insurance to cover a lockdown scenario with any insurer, although we have found insurance to cover covid illness.

they don't care about you
I have no inside knowledge but that is certainly my impression!
(would you be prepared to elaborate MRx?)

It does seem silly to open nightclubs after such a strict lockdown. Surely better to wait until after the summer.

@crosseyedMary - I was quoting @drivinmecrazy, that wasn't my comment.

[quote MRex]**@crosseyedMary* - I was quoting @drivinmecrazy*, that wasn't my comment.[/quote]
Doh, sorry, stupid me🤦‍♀️

Are you getting any money back mad?

No - sadly not, I am having to reschedule the hotel for next year as we have paid a deposit, and pay a change fee for the flights assuming the airline will not cancel the flights (we will leave the flight change to a few days before, as many flights seem to be cancelled at the last minute. It would save the date change fee)

So we haven't lost very much apart from the flight change fee if we have to cancel, and the hotel to their credit have very understanding and moved the booking free of charge piggy

That's fair enough then. Shame but at least you can go at some point.

Drivin- excellent post.
I'm also astonished at the finger pointing and tired (and incorrect) accusations levelled at other European countries in a frankly desperate attempt to convince that the UK knows what it's doing, cares what it's doing, and is telling the truth.

Every word on this thread about Italy, for example is untrue. But crack on with your lazy stereotypes.

And the (absolute scientific) fact that the UK's testing is a laughing stock, track and tracing virtually non existent, and the less scientific but blatantly obvious stropping from the snowflake population having a tantie of epic proportions if asked to wear a mask for 5 minutes then having the temerity to sit and go "oooooh they'll be in lockdown soon those irresponsible Spaniards" beggars belief.

Hubris has a nasty habit of biting you on the arse. As March 2020 proved.

sic May I point out that the snowflake term, if it was ever acceptable certainly isn't now given what the country has been through, and the testing capabilities in the UK right now is now running extremely efficiently. I am not sure where you are getting your information, but it seems out of date.

As far as I am aware we are one of the few countries in the world that has a genuine vaccine that is progressing extremely well, a vaccine that will be shared with the rest of the world if successful.
So although we have had issues with PPE and tracing (as most other countries have also experienced) the vaccine will be a total game changer for the entire world as I am sure you will agree. I have every confidence in Oxford and Imperial, both world class and both extremely focused on delivering a proper solution rather than a poorly executed sticking plaster.