Schools reopening 2

[oldbagface]

Old thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3971862-Schools-Reopening?pg=1

Not complaining about the pay increase btw! Just the inflammatory reporting of it by certain media sources!

I was teaching in hat, coat and gloves last year as we weren’t allowed the heating on because of the deficit budget. No doubt my choice will be to either shut the windows and let the germs run free or open them and we’re all working bundled up in coats and hats all day.

The pay rise isn’t a new thing-this was talked about months ago. The fact it’s coming out of school budgets is dreadful. Head teachers on Twitter seem devastated-it’ll mean redundancies to pay for it. Who goes-the cleaner or a TA?

I think schools are governed by the Factories Act. The minimum temperature used to be 18 degrees. Until for no reason at all, Gove lowered it to 17.

@Letseatgrandma, Probably both. Who needs cleaners, after all, because according to a fair few on here on other threads, teachers can clean the loos in all that spare time we have.

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince

I think schools are governed by the Factories Act. The minimum temperature used to be 18 degrees. Until for no reason at all, Gove lowered it to 17.

I wonder if there's a teacher anywhere who has actually walked out, though, when the temperature has dropped below that? Or risen above whatever the upper range is in summer?

I’ve complained a lot when the temperature has dropped in my room!! In fact every winter l complain. The caretakers hate me!

Just been sent this. Interesting take on completely rethinking education for next term - idea that govt funds getting kids outdoors learning skills & throw lifeline to struggling businesses instead of cramming everyone into crowded classrooms. It won’t happen, of course, this govt does not have the imagination or time, but I think it shows there’s scope to be more innovative in how we think about all of this.

freemarketconservatives.org/the-government-must-learn-from-its-covid-19-mistakes/

Whilst classrooms need as much ventilation as possible, if the air is cold (given they are returning to the winter term) will the ventilation outweigh the risk of the particles remaining longer in cold air? The places with outbreaks have been in cold environments recently.

Good point, IceCream. But who knows? For every study saying one thing, another one pops up saying the opposite.

But either way, schools staff are going to just suck it up and get on with it. No one will listen to our concerns.

Jeez. That report confirmed what I was thinking already. No putting on my heating all winter in my classroom (hot air system)! Plus windows and door fully open.

Isn't it the air conditioning that is the problem, not the temperature per se?

I have some pairs of Turtle Doves gloves, they're lovely and I must admit I haven't tried wearing them literally all day, but I wouldn't say they make a huge difference to my fingers feeling very cold at times.

Schools are exempt form the factories act and other workplace temperature directives.. It may be that there is a minimum, but there definitely is not a maximum or vice versa. can't remember now but it was looked into in our school at one point by the Big Union.

Same for hospitals @Piggywaspushed at one point we had 8 people crammed into a office that was previously a bedroom (hospital accommodation). Freezing in winter and could be 35+ in summer !

Yes, same for hospitals . Anyone who has ever been in one as a patient, visitor or employee knows this! I gave birth in a heatwave! Fun...

@Piggywaspushed

Schools are exempt form the factories act and other workplace temperature directives.. It may be that there is a minimum, but there definitely is not a maximum or vice versa. can't remember now but it was looked into in our school at one point by the Big Union.

There is no maximum workplace temperature, I looked into it in a previous job where high temperatures were messing up my results (lab based) - the reason for this is places like bakeries and steel works which are always hot. There is a minimum, we got sent home when we complained as it was 6 °C in the lab (the heating was broken and the high air flow made it colder).

@JulyBreeze

I have some pairs of Turtle Doves gloves, they're lovely and I must admit I haven't tried wearing them literally all day, but I wouldn't say they make a huge difference to my fingers feeling very cold at times.

They do look lovely, but no point if they don't keep my hands warm/circulation on.

I am grateful to be moving to one of the very few classrooms in the school that has radiators not blown air heating...

However I am also the only teacher - we have all been in school since June 1st as all classrooms in use - to have had windows and doors open according to our RA throughout. So I am not convinced that everyone will be following the guidance next term, which as our bubbles will be year group not class, brings me interestingly into close contact with a whole load of children who will have been exchanging virus in a closed classroom for hours....

@CallmeAngelina

If that article was only published recently, how come the Diamond Princess cruise ship hadn't already indicated that air-conditioning systems were a major issue?

AC is believed to have placed a role in the Diamond Princess outbreak.

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.08.20148775v1

www.sfgate.com/science/article/Study-Ship-s-AC-system-likely-spread-COVID-19-15405100.php

@Flagsfiend

Apparently to solve the inevitable temperature problems we, and the students, are now allowed to wear coats in lessons. This goes against the government guidance as it says not to relax the uniform expectations - our uniform policy says to remove coats indoors. Also not convinced it is legal to have freezing classroom, minimum temperature in a workplace that doesn't include manual labour is 16 °C.

The virus thrives in cold temperatures. It is highly stable at 4 degrees Celsius and sees very little decay over time, with 70% survival after 14 days. This suggests the virus will become more persistent and better at replicating in winter.

If schools are to open with full classrooms, keep them as warm as possible. Solve the air circulation issue another way.

www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lanmic/PIIS2666-5247(20)30003-3.pdf

I am actually hoping that the risk for the teachers may not be as great as we feared. Sweden had their schools open during the entire pandemic and they have published a report on Covid per work category- based on lab confirmed Covid tests for the period 13march - 27 May. They showed number of cases, total number active in the profession and calculated a relative risk (RR) per profession.

The most risky professions in order were Taxi drivers, pizza makers, buss / train drivers with relative risks between 4.8 and 4.3 (how much more they were likely to catch Covid compared to other risk professions).

Schools had a special table and relative risk in related works (cleaners, teachers, nursery workers etc) were between 0.7 and 1.1.

I believe that the study excluded doctors etc (but not sure). Total number of cases analysed were 3188. There are obviously a huge number of other factors that influence things, but on a first glance, data from a country with open schools looks encouraging.

www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/contentassets/5e248b82cc284971a1c5fd922e7770f8/forekomst-covid-19-olika-yrkesgrupper.pdf

Swedish schools weren't open as normal though, post-16 provision was remote and under 16s had enforced social distancing by doing blended learning www.google.com/amp/s/www.tes.com/news/have-swedish-schools-really-carried-normal%3famp

Sweden had their schools open during the entire pandemic

That is very misleading!

Up to year 9 was still in school. Above year 9 were remote learning or mixed.

My friends in Sweden who has children in schools up to year 9 had pretty standard school days, but play dates were discouraged. All football for juniors were going ahead as well.

They did have a different approach to illness in that it was not only cough and fever, but any illness at all and you were asked to stay at home.

I believe they felt very strongly that vulnerable children and children who were weak in school would be disproportionately disadvantaged by closure in those ages. Sweden is a bit left wing as a country.