Schools Reopening?

[ClimbDad]

A major, peer reviewed study into transmission in South Korea has established that tweens and teenagers spread the SARSCOV2 virus more than any other age group.

The study involved more than 65,000 people and used South Korea’s exceptionally effective contact tracing system to look at who brought the virus into households. Tweens and teenagers were the highest index case age group. Younger children transmitted at the same rate as 20-somethings.

This is a large scale, rigorous piece of research that proves children are effective at transmitting the virus. It was conducted in a country that implements strict social distancing and mask wearing among children. The authors say the rate of transmission would have been higher if children weren’t subjected to those measures.

Plans to reopen schools more or less as normal in September will place many lives at risk, and increase the likelihood schools will have to close again. The government needs to acknowledge schools will be highly efficient vectors of viral transmission and change its reopening plans.

Published Paper:
wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315_article

Article on the paper:

www.bloombergquint.com/business/covid-19-spread-fastest-by-teens-and-tweens-korea-study-finds

@Drivingdownthe101 I don't think there are any easy answers. Teachers are parents too and have the same issues, so if their child's school closes who looks after their kids ?
I am wearing a visor and mask (have been teaching Years 10 & 12 for several weeks). I also have a safety screen as a science teacher. But boy do I have to shout to be heard. And it's so hot. But I'm not standing in front of 150 kids a day without some kind of protection as I'm a bit old. I'd like the kids to wear masks and some of my students have done so to make me feel better, for which I am so grateful.
I think what has upset teachers so much is the blase way we have been treated and talked about. All we've asked is to be part of the discussions on the guidance - no one has ever asked us for ideas.

@pennylane83

Adults working with them need to be as safe as possible. So masks should be worn. I don't understand how anyone would think otherwise, given this research.

Children's education matters but the lives of those working with them matters more.

Because a mask in only effective if everyone wears one as they really only offer protection to others not the wearer so, for a teacher to be able to work safely would require all children to wear a mask also. Given that 95% of adults you see out and about wearing a facemask are incapable of NOT touching it (thereby increasing the risk by spreading around whatever virus particles are covering it) then I don't see how you can expect children to use them appropriately so as to actually be of any use, expecially primary school children. You are more likelly to pick up an illness through improper use.

I meant masks worn by all.

If children cannot wear masks appropriately then maybe they shouldn't be allowed in school. Children can deal with a lot more than some people seem to think.

Kids in other countries are wearing masks. Are they just more competent and resilient than our kids?

Why do we have such low expectations?

Children in other countries successfully wear masks. Not sure why ours can't. Yes it's not nice but as my mum says, she wore a gas mask and had her schooling in a tube station while bombs fell on her. She's pretty unscathed by that so a small blue mask probably isn't too traumatic.

The government don't want children or teachers to wear masks. They spouted the shit for so long that children can't catch it/pass it on etc. Adults are ok to social distance from children. I work in early years. Four children came in crying, sobbing for their parents, wanting a cuddle and to hold hands and to just stand by the side of me. What am I to do? Send them away? They are four!

My secondary is having "bubbles" of each year group - 500 in each!

@ballsdeep

The government don't want children or teachers to wear masks. They spouted the shit for so long that children can't catch it/pass it on etc. Adults are ok to social distance from children. I work in early years. Four children came in crying, sobbing for their parents, wanting a cuddle and to hold hands and to just stand by the side of me. What am I to do? Send them away? They are four!

Sorry that should read the government expect adults to socially distance from children

I think bubbles in secondary are meaningless; not only is each bubble too big, lots of kids of automatically mingle as soon as they leave the school gate we.g walk home together, when they get off the bus etc.

We've already been told we will need to stand at doorways to enforce social distancing between bubbles. I'm not sure how we will SD from the kids when the corridors are not much more than a 1m wide but of course staff have been told to socially distance from bubbles and each other " if possible" and only need ppe if we will be within 1m or more for 15 minutes plus or providing care etc.

It basically feels like we are just going to have to take our chances and hope for the best. Our main protection will be statistics by the look of it.

Place marking

I think schools will be shut again very quickly. And staff will get sick. If parents think mask wearing is traumatic then I can't imagine the trauma of knowing your teacher is on life support.

Even in primary the bubbles aren’t really bubbles.

We have classes of 30 odd, with a teacher but all teachers and TAs can cross all bubbles and different people come in to do PPA/PE/music. The school eat together for lunch and the. mix for phonics and play times.

Not remotely bubble like-so, a bubble of the whole school.

@BrieAndChilli
What the alternative though?

The alternative is that you put proper systems in place.

Not one teacher on here has ever said that schools shouldn't go back.

They/we have said that proper systems need to be in place for the safety of the staff, pupils and families.

This starts with masks in schools along side the temperature taking and a zero policy on illness and behaviour.

Ours have been back in year ten in small groups so far, maybe they could go in like that for some seeing and then do other work at home. They have done google classroom sessions for the class as well.

I think universities are doing lectures online then smaller tutor groups being in? Not sure.

@noblegiraffe

We have teachers who teach at different schools within the MAT, and sixth formers who have lessons at different schools.

The word bubble is literally meaningless.

It is a joke, they used it to describe one extra person joining a family. So we are accepting of it as a pretty safe term. Now they’ve just twisted it and confused it beyond belief.

I agree so many issues to sort surrounding how to best prepare for caring for our children and society, which is all the more reason for the government to be a bit more transparent about the plan B.

Some people really have trouble seeing that there are more options between

1. schools closed forever
2. schools open as normal

They seem to think that if you are not happy with 2) you must be arguing for 1).

Which is just stupid.

They ask ‘well what do you think should happen then?’ As if it’s a clever gotcha question instead of one that demonstrates they haven’t even read the thread.

@Orangeblossom78 that's exactly what Unis are doing. Blended learning. I've been in with 10s and 12s for 4 weeks. My most common cry is 'Peter Crouch' - keep a Peter Crouch apart. I did try Richard Osman but Crouchy means I can do the robot to get their attention. Older kids do know how to socially distance, they just don't. But they have respected my distance because I have explained they could harm me if they don't, and they've mostly been fantastic at looking out for me. This has been fine with 25% of each group in at a time. When we have over 1800 kids on site I am not sure how it will work.

@noblegiraffe 👍👍👍👍👍

I do hope they encourage wearing masks at school. When we went to meeting at school, my dc was the only one wearing a mask. He said he felt awkward other children staring at him and took it off. Best is everyone to wear it, but if not, at least hope it won't be a cause of teasing or bullying.

@noblegiraffe

Some people really have trouble seeing that there are more options between

1. schools closed forever
2. schools open as normal

They seem to think that if you are not happy with 2) you must be arguing for 1).

Which is just stupid.

They ask ‘well what do you think should happen then?’ As if it’s a clever gotcha question instead of one that demonstrates they haven’t even read the thread.

Spot on @noblegiraffe.

Same with our school mumsneedwine but then also they have had a few disengaged pupils in on supervised computers too doing the online work.

I kind of thought this might continue but no the whole lot are going back.

@Orangeblossom78 we've had some of the disengaged back too. As well as 3 key worker pods. So many staff been in covering it all as well as teaching remotely. I am shattered. 3 days to go ....

Ours have been back in year ten in small groups so far, maybe they could go in like that for some seeing and then do other work at home. They have done google classroom sessions for the class as well

I think universities are doing lectures online then smaller tutor groups being in? Not sure

Universities are also distinctly different from schools because they cater for adults who are capable of managing their time and have the self discipline to learn at home - being able to go away and research things for yourself etc with only a small amount of lecture based teaching is the norm on many university courses anyway so teaching in this way at unversities isnt too far removed from normal (its the social life aspect that uni students will predominantly be missing out on).

This is in no way caparable to how secondary schools should be taught. As a parent, if your not able to WFH, do you really think your 12/13/14/15 year old has the self discipline to sit down and work on their own for 6 hours a day, yeah there might be online zoom lessons or whatever but they can quite easily mute them and not pay attention etc. Some very diligent students maybe but the majority...

Kids in other countries appear to be able to wear masks. Surely it’s not beyond us as parents & teachers to explain this so children understand?
If we want schools fully open, then we need to accept some things will be different ie masks. Surely that’s not an unreasonable ask?
We can’t just pretend there isn’t a problem & hope it magically goes away.

If we want schools fully open, then we need to accept some things will be different ie masks.

Why though? Desptie the wearing of masks in schools in Austria when they initially reopened this has now been abandoned because officials observed little spread within schools. In Germany (which everyone seems to tout as being the grandmaster in all things Covid) they only ask children to wear masks in corriders or toilets and not in the classroom itself. In Canada, Denmark, Norway and Sweden, mask wearing is optional for both students and staff. Despite this there hasn't been the huge explosion in cases in schools that everyone is scaremongering about happening here.

[quote FrippEnos]**@BrieAndChilli
What the alternative though?

The alternative is that you put proper systems in place.

Not one teacher on here has ever said that schools shouldn't go back.

They/we have said that proper systems need to be in place for the safety of the staff, pupils and families.

This starts with masks in schools along side the temperature taking and a zero policy on illness and behaviour.[/quote]
Absolutely this. No one is suggesting schools should remain closed. The government has been remarkably unimaginative in its responses to this pandemic. It isn’t a binary choice between opening up as normal or staying shut, there are a number of control measures that can be put in place.

Temperature checks
Masks
Smaller teaching groups
Focus on outdoor learning
And many of the other suggestions detailed on this thread. If we want anything close to normality during a pandemic, we need to work hard for it.