Schools Reopening?

[ClimbDad]

A major, peer reviewed study into transmission in South Korea has established that tweens and teenagers spread the SARSCOV2 virus more than any other age group.

The study involved more than 65,000 people and used South Korea’s exceptionally effective contact tracing system to look at who brought the virus into households. Tweens and teenagers were the highest index case age group. Younger children transmitted at the same rate as 20-somethings.

This is a large scale, rigorous piece of research that proves children are effective at transmitting the virus. It was conducted in a country that implements strict social distancing and mask wearing among children. The authors say the rate of transmission would have been higher if children weren’t subjected to those measures.

Plans to reopen schools more or less as normal in September will place many lives at risk, and increase the likelihood schools will have to close again. The government needs to acknowledge schools will be highly efficient vectors of viral transmission and change its reopening plans.

Published Paper:
wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315_article

Article on the paper:

www.bloombergquint.com/business/covid-19-spread-fastest-by-teens-and-tweens-korea-study-finds

I really think BoJo should have stood firm against the unions and reopened when he initially said

When do you mean?

What do you believe Boris changed his mind about due to the teaching unions?

My youngest is still in Primary and she will be in a class bubble of 30 which is much better.

Except it won't just be a bubble of 30. There will likely be teachers / TAs and other staff working across multiple bubbles, in her year group and others. As well as siblings in other year groups / schools which will add to her bubble.

Try a bit harder. We have been specifically told we are not allowed to do anything that would require any extra staff or space or would involve rotas. The clear and only outcome of that to anyone who understands secondary school environment and staffing is that anything meaningful we could do to enhance safety or reduce transmission has been effectively banned by the guidelines.

@noblegiraffe

I'm only interested in discussing a topic that I care a lot about.

What is odd is that you just keep repeating the same shit over and over and not actually taking on board anything that is being said. You’re not discussing, you’re just tediously monologuing.

I could say the same to you but I'm far too polite!

I could say the same to you but I'm far too polite!

Except noble is a teacher who knows her stuff.

If you children are not super spreaders - it seems not as no surge in positively with vulnerable groups, hopefully Oxford vaccine will enable some normality. Fingers crossed to vulnerable and high risk occupations receiving in Oct/Nov, keeping numbers low until wider distribution for everyone’s sake.

@SmileEachDay

I could say the same to you but I'm far too polite!

Except noble is a teacher who knows her stuff.

Noble is a teacher with an opinion. I'm a parent with an opinion.

I also think that non teachers and non parents have equally valid opinions.

These are unprecedented times. It's ok to not be a teacher and discuss reopening schools.

A teacher repeating the same old shit to a hospital doctor on a thread about how to make hospitals safe during a pandemic would be rather different than the doctor posting in depth on it surely? Or is your contempt directed at all professionals rather than just teachers?

Even the government has downplayed the chances of a vaccine this year. Certainly it will come after we have direct empirical evidence of whether (older) children/ schools cause infection!

@SmileEachDay

I think secondary schools could try a bit harder to get smaller bubbles considering research like this. It is worrying

We can’t. The government have explicitly told us not to.

Yes sorry that is sloppy wording from me. What I meant is the Government should try harder with secondary school guidance to make them safer. I don’t blame the secondary schools I blame the Government.

@TheHoneyBadger

A teacher repeating the same old shit to a hospital doctor on a thread about how to make hospitals safe during a pandemic would be rather different than the doctor posting in depth on it surely? Or is your contempt directed at all professionals rather than just teachers?

If the teacher was also a patient. Or the relative of a patient. Or had an interest in NHS. Why shouldn't they express their opinions?

have equally valid opinions.

This have never been true on any issue. Some people really aren’t informed or clever.

Differing opinions on whether 5G causes coronavirus or not, for example, are not equally valid.

@noblegiraffe

have equally valid opinions.

This have never been true on any issue. Some people really aren’t informed or clever.

Differing opinions on whether 5G causes coronavirus or not, for example, are not equally valid.

Are you really saying you need to be clever to have an opinion @noblegiraffe I think that's awful! Not everyone is clever but all are entitled to their opinions.

As it happens I am both! Hence why a thread on 5G wouldn't interest me

I also think that non teachers and non parents have equally valid opinions

Yeah, but actually knowledge is more important than opinions when you’re managing the logistics of reopening schools.

These are unprecedented times. It's ok to not be a teacher and discuss reopening schools

You’re not really discussing it though - you’re telling us how it should be done. You don’t have the knowledge to do that effectively.

Opinions are of limited value.

Only arguments can be valid or invalid, giving your opinion (without a logical argument to back it up) is just a statement.
We can all make whatever statements we want! Some of them will be true and some will be horseshit.

Mepop

No worries 😊

@walksen imo gov have downplayed so people keep distancing/ wearing masks.

There’s quite a lot of data being gathered from covid screening in hospitals where you would expect the incidence to be higher due to the vulnerable groups.

@Hercwasonaroll

I think secondary schools could try a bit harder to get smaller bubbles

How? Think through the logistics and then come back with a plan that no headteacher has considered and discounted.

I think the a Government guidance should change and they should consult teachers for their ideas. But if I was asked (and I am not a teacher so not in the best position to think of guidance) I would allow some home schooling for secondary kids so they are only in part time. They are old enough to be home without parents. Government should fund IT equipment etc for kids that need it. My son’s school set lessons using google classroom throughout lockdown for every lesson as it was timetabled. Kids do plenty of homework already so it is not much different to that. This would mean less kids are in school every day and then bubbles are smaller than 280. Also they could try to arrange the teaching groups so less kids mix.

When tens of thousands of lives are on the line I’ll take expert knowledge over the opinions of the uninformed any time.

If that makes me an elitist in your stirring strategy so be it.

My bowel surgery was done by a surgeon not someone who has an interest in bowels or watches casualty.

Are you really saying you need to be clever to have an opinion

Clearly not, bearing in mind current evidence. But having an opinion and having an equally valid opinion are different things.

@TheHoneyBadger

Why are we always catering to the lowest common denominator and why aren’t those cases dealt with directly?

Can’t allow home Ed because some parents won’t bother. Can’t do blended learning because some kids won’t bother with the home bit.

There has to be some self accountability somewhere in this. Even full time school we can’t force kids to learn if they actively won’t. We need to give up on this idea that learning is something we can force into kids heads and results are entirely dependent on schools.

Parents and kids themselves have to take some accountability. We work all the time to overcome chaotic home lives, poverty, total lack of interest, completely antisocial behaviour etc when we’re meant to be there to teach.

To then say to good parents they’re not allowed to home Ed their kids in the middle of a pandemic because some parents wouldn’t bother is ridiculous.

All teachers and all parents now have to act as if everyone was the worst case scenario whilst continuing to do nothing to address the minority who are that worst case scenario.

If kids are being abused either directly or by neglect that needs to be addressed by our legal system and social services. Ss in my area has repeatedly been failed by ofsted and ruled unable to keep young people safe. Unsurprisingly given chronic cuts and a bankrupt local authority. Schools can’t magically be everything at the best of times let alone in the middle of a pandemic without any funding.

Exactly this.

Tbh I think that the idea that they’re opening schools to protect vulnerable children is a fallacy. Parents feeling confident about sending their children in because it’s safer would help protect the vulnerable.

Smaller, socially distanced classes, meaning the teacher can better speak to individuals after what for many has been an ordeal would better protect the vulnerable.

Time given to schools to liaise with vulnerable children’s families rather than giving them impossible guidelines to fathom out would have helped the vulnerable too.

The return to school is about the economy and a little bit of a boost to herd immunity before the winter.

It looks like numbers are rising again though. I’m wondering if it would be better to happen now due to pubs,etc - with people having a genuine choice about going and who they go on to see afterwards as opposed to September when many won’t have that choice (and obviously have to then go home to their families). Obviously it would be better to not happen at all but that never seems to have been considered as an option.

I’ve loved this life - loved the home Ed and late mornings and although eldest is going back to school ( yr 7 prep) the youngest (yr 6 State) is going to have a year of home Ed with me and not go back.😎

An opinion is only "equal and valid" when it's based on knowledge. Made up nonsense from a position of ignorance and repeating the same incorrect bullshit is not a valid opinion.

@Pomegranatepompom

If you children are not super spreaders - it seems not as no surge in positively with vulnerable groups, hopefully Oxford vaccine will enable some normality. Fingers crossed to vulnerable and high risk occupations receiving in Oct/Nov, keeping numbers low until wider distribution for everyone’s sake.

The war will be over and the troops will be home by Christmas.

Surprised at how many people believe a comforting lie. A vaccine will not be widely available before 2021 or even 2022.

@noblegiraffe

Are you really saying you need to be clever to have an opinion

Clearly not, bearing in mind current evidence. But having an opinion and having an equally valid opinion are different things.

Is this what you teach your kids?! Who decides what is equally valid? Teachers?

Take a step back @noblegiraffe

There are studies that support any argument.