Schools Reopening?

[ClimbDad]

A major, peer reviewed study into transmission in South Korea has established that tweens and teenagers spread the SARSCOV2 virus more than any other age group.

The study involved more than 65,000 people and used South Korea’s exceptionally effective contact tracing system to look at who brought the virus into households. Tweens and teenagers were the highest index case age group. Younger children transmitted at the same rate as 20-somethings.

This is a large scale, rigorous piece of research that proves children are effective at transmitting the virus. It was conducted in a country that implements strict social distancing and mask wearing among children. The authors say the rate of transmission would have been higher if children weren’t subjected to those measures.

Plans to reopen schools more or less as normal in September will place many lives at risk, and increase the likelihood schools will have to close again. The government needs to acknowledge schools will be highly efficient vectors of viral transmission and change its reopening plans.

Published Paper:
wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315_article

Article on the paper:

www.bloombergquint.com/business/covid-19-spread-fastest-by-teens-and-tweens-korea-study-finds

Why are we always catering to the lowest common denominator and why aren’t those cases dealt with directly?

Can’t allow home Ed because some parents won’t bother. Can’t do blended learning because some kids won’t bother with the home bit.

There has to be some self accountability somewhere in this. Even full time school we can’t force kids to learn if they actively won’t. We need to give up on this idea that learning is something we can force into kids heads and results are entirely dependent on schools.

Parents and kids themselves have to take some accountability. We work all the time to overcome chaotic home lives, poverty, total lack of interest, completely antisocial behaviour etc when we’re meant to be there to teach.

To then say to good parents they’re not allowed to home Ed their kids in the middle of a pandemic because some parents wouldn’t bother is ridiculous.

All teachers and all parents now have to act as if everyone was the worst case scenario whilst continuing to do nothing to address the minority who are that worst case scenario.

If kids are being abused either directly or by neglect that needs to be addressed by our legal system and social services. Ss in my area has repeatedly been failed by ofsted and ruled unable to keep young people safe. Unsurprisingly given chronic cuts and a bankrupt local authority. Schools can’t magically be everything at the best of times let alone in the middle of a pandemic without any funding.

@noblegiraffe

I really think BoJo should have stood firm against the unions and reopened when he initially said.

It wasn’t the unions that scuppered the full re-opening of primary schools, it was Boris Johnson’s own guidelines for the re-opening of primary schools.

Indeed. Many schools were ready to open to more students. They had planned and put measures in place, much of which had to be scrapped when the guidance was released.

We’re like the ultimate fucking social panacea. And it’s definitely a placebo

You want to sit at home with your kids, that’s fine. I couldn’t care less. I will send my kids to school because they need that structure and interaction with friends. Fed up with reading all this scaremongering nonsense.

This thread is getting full. In case it runs out of space I've made a new one. Hope OP @ClimbDad doesn't mind.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3973425-Schools-reopening-2?watched=1

The unions released a joint statement in June saying NOT to reopen schools.

BoJo was under a lot of pressure obviously. But imo it would have been preferable to reopening in September. He caved which was a mistake

Fed up with reading all this scaremongering nonsense.

You think the study in the OP is scaremongering nonsense?

I notice kitchen that you claim not to vote Conservative but have popped back on the thread to spout anti union nonsense that no one voting libdem or Labour would ever normally say. Your choice how to vote but don't pretend.

You also never answer the direct questions like how has your job returned completely to normal, as you state, and have you actually read the guidelines? Direct and simple to answer questions.

The unions released a joint statement in June saying NOT to reopen schools

They released a statement that said “open schools when it is safe to do so” and laid out some very straightforward tests.

Schools re-opened in June, so what exactly did the unions block?

The fuller re-opening of primary schools was dropped by Johnson because it couldn’t be achieved while working to his own government guidelines.

The accountability comes from above though.
The government created the accountability and reliance on the state to sort everything. They created the mess and now can't/won't fund their way out of it.

It was a huge missed opportunity not to fully reopen schools in the summer. We could have learnt a lot. Had much more outdoors learning

A good proportion of secondary lessons require specialized equipment - DT, Sciences... plus you're making assumptions about how much outdoor space schools have and the classically unpredictable English weather.

May opening didn't happen because Boris didn't forewarn schools and unions what his plans were. Many predicted a return similar to the rest of Europe - everyone returning on a rota rather than the years that he chose or that it would be y5,10 and 12 only.

Children need to go back to school but the Government needs to put more money into the education system to help schools cope. The covid situation has highlighted how cramped many schools are and a lot of kids are taught in huge classes (I know some of my sets had 33 kids in!) Investment could go into portakabins in the short term and hiring more teachers to try to keep students in smaller groups. The school day could be extended for the older ones do they have lessons at 3.30 when the younger ones have gone. There are quite a lot of options that are not being looked at. Some face-face education and peer interaction is better than none - children could go back 3 days per week and spend 2 doing work at home. The Government saying all children should go back in September in usual class sizes seems complacent to me. The Government can find money to foot the huge furlough bill - why can’t it invest more in schools and keeping kids/teachers safe?!

@Piggywaspushed

I notice kitchen that you claim not to vote Conservative but have popped back on the thread to spout anti union nonsense that no one voting libdem or Labour would ever normally say. Your choice how to vote but don't pretend.

You also never answer the direct questions like how has your job returned completely to normal, as you state, and have you actually read the guidelines? Direct and simple to answer questions.

I'm only interested in discussing a topic that I care a lot about. To be asked my job, my voting history or what colour knickers I'm wearing is plain odd. Is not normally asked of posters on MN and I will ignore. Feel free to keep asking though.

If you choose to believe I vote Tory or whatever it doesn't bother me at all.

My oldest is in secondary school. His school have already told us how he will be back in September. They will be in year group bubbles with social distancing from teachers but not each other. There are 280 in each year group. That is too many kids.

My youngest is still in Primary and she will be in a class bubble of 30 which is much better. I think secondary schools could try a bit harder to get smaller bubbles considering research like this. It is worrying.

Boris and Gavin also forgot that half class size means that you need double the teachers and classrooms 🤦🏻‍♀️

openplankitchen

Your job is relevant, as you keep telling teachers how to do things. A little transparency would be helpful.

@noblegiraffe

Schools re-opened in June, so what exactly did the unions block?

The fuller re-opening of primary schools was dropped by Johnson because it couldn’t be achieved while working to his own government guidelines.

Schools in fact never closed. They were always open to the children of key workers. In June some more children were allowed back.

As you know the majority of children have not been in school though.

@mumoftinyterrors I don't 'want to sit at home with my DC.' I also didn't want a pandemic that could kill anyone in my family including sheilding DD.

You do you. My child has Sen and is a bloody handful. It is MY choice to avoid DD catching it and for my school age child to have an education. If that means no let up for me then so be it.

I'm only interested in discussing a topic that I care a lot about.

What is odd is that you just keep repeating the same shit over and over and not actually taking on board anything that is being said. You’re not discussing, you’re just tediously monologuing.

I think secondary schools could try a bit harder to get smaller bubbles considering research like this. It is worrying

We can’t. The government have explicitly told us not to.

All this talk of bubbles and shifting the emphasis onto schools to mitigate risk is similar to the public now thinking the course of this Pandemic is decided by whether they have their hair cut, whether we open pubs or meet 6 people outside and not 4.

It's all a smokescreen to detract from the fact the Government has negated to follow the basic cornerstones of public health which is to test, track, trace and isolate infected individuals. A response being carried out by some countries in Africa better than us.

Until community transmission is low and kept low by our Government schools cannot open safely. It is that simple. Let us not fall for the pantomime!

I think secondary schools could try a bit harder to get smaller bubbles

How? Think through the logistics and then come back with a plan that no headteacher has considered and discounted.

German state of Baden Wuerttemberg (a country with a better healthcare system and much lower infection and death rates) has already confirmed that parents will have a choice whether or not their children should attend school in the new school year. Distance/remote learning will be offered. I am one of the longhaul covid sufferers - have been ill for over 4months and no one can tell me whether or not I am still infectious. Not sure? Shouldn't... Can't rule out, etc. I am staying at home (really tricky) and am worried sending my child into school and potentially making everyone ill. Child has shortness of breath and husband and I both have quire severe symptoms still. There is also no help from NHS. They are just not set up for it. I am very worried for everyone about the second wave. Government should at least give parents a choice.

Schools in fact never closed. They were always open to the children of key workers. In June some more children were allowed back.

Duh. So what were you on about the unions blocking if not the wider opening of primary schools that was dropped?