Schools Reopening?

[ClimbDad]

A major, peer reviewed study into transmission in South Korea has established that tweens and teenagers spread the SARSCOV2 virus more than any other age group.

The study involved more than 65,000 people and used South Korea’s exceptionally effective contact tracing system to look at who brought the virus into households. Tweens and teenagers were the highest index case age group. Younger children transmitted at the same rate as 20-somethings.

This is a large scale, rigorous piece of research that proves children are effective at transmitting the virus. It was conducted in a country that implements strict social distancing and mask wearing among children. The authors say the rate of transmission would have been higher if children weren’t subjected to those measures.

Plans to reopen schools more or less as normal in September will place many lives at risk, and increase the likelihood schools will have to close again. The government needs to acknowledge schools will be highly efficient vectors of viral transmission and change its reopening plans.

Published Paper:
wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315_article

Article on the paper:

www.bloombergquint.com/business/covid-19-spread-fastest-by-teens-and-tweens-korea-study-finds

I want shcools to reopen safely. I'm not sure how that can be done but it needs to be done.

Everyone agrees with you time, the issue is that the current plans aren’t safe, because the government is refusing to give any money to schools for even basics like extra cleaning.

noble my eldest has not been in school since 19th March. School has been shut to her.

Just like it has been to most of our children, then.

Keeping schools shut isn't an option in my opinion

Nobody here is arguing for schools to stay closed.

@noblegiraffe

Keeping schools shut isn't an option in my opinion

Another one for the ‘if you’re not happy with the current plans you’re arguing for schools to stay shut’ bin.

Going to repost this here for your benefit. It is important we all understand this virus has only been known about for a little over 6 months. It is new, it has killed more than 600,000 people, we're beginning to understand it has long-term consequences, but we don't know the full extent of those consequences yet. Social distancing and infection control may be difficult, it may be inconvenient and it may cost, but if your child is infected with a virus that later turns out to have long-term health implications, how will you feel? How will they feel about you?

We have the ability to prevent infection by taking very simple steps - stay apart as much as possible, limit the number or people we interact with, wear masks.

Why gamble? Why wouldn't we try to do these things as much as possible and give scientists the time to properly understand this virus and develop vaccines and treatments?

"A very small number of children have been affected by PIMS-TS during lockdown. One of the theories being advanced is that these children caught Covid19 twice and have experienced something called antibody dependent enhancement.

www.wired.co.uk/article/coronavirus-children-pims-ts

Antibody dependent enhancement is a serious problem if it proves to be a feature of this virus, but the only way to definitively prove whether it’s happening is for a sufficient number of people to be exposed to second infection (or through vaccine challenge).

Already the signs are there that ADE could be a feature of Covid19, but most people are dismissing these tales of more serious second infection as anomalous.

www.businessinsider.com/nashville-man-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-twice-2020-7

www.nature.com/articles/s41587-020-0577-1

Without knowing more about the effects of this virus on children and adults, we’re essentially going to be using children, teachers and other staff as guinea pigs in a mass live experiment if schools reopen more or less as normal in September.

Then there’s the long term impact of infection on children. We have no idea what this virus does but we’re already seeing some children join the ranks of Long Covid sufferers with fever for 90+ days, fatigue, persistent coughs, brain fog and so on. No one is reporting on this, but it’s happening. The only question is how much.

Be under no illusions, this virus causes chronic conditions.

news.berkeley.edu/2020/07/08/from-lung-scarring-to-heart-damage-covid-19-may-leave-lingering-marks/

In Florida, they’re finding that children who test positive but are asymptomatic, still have scarring in their lungs.

www.winknews.com/2020/07/17/health-officials-worry-about-long-term-effects-of-covid-19-on-kids/

If you want to gamble that a pandemic illness will be kind to you and your family, that’s your choice. Based on what we already know about this virus, I don’t think that’s a good bet."

@Timeforanotherusername

My children and other children need school and they need the school environment and the socialisation that comes with it.

My eldest missed more than 1/2 of her school year just like every one of her cohorts.

Keeping schools shut isn't an option in my opinion.

The vast majority of people who die or are seriously ill are very elderly. We can't forget the children and i am astonished that so many parents want their children forgotten about.

Tagged the wrong quote to my previous post.

Letseat if you read my previous post then you would see that I acknowledged that!

I don't think anything can be done to make it safe in the eyes of a few...........

Agree with everything you say noble.

The problem is, going back pretty much as normal (which is essentially the government's current position) without any extra funding for extra hygiene or cleaning, and no requirement for masks, no innovative solutions for extra space (e.g. village halls) to allow more social distancing, no extra money for heating to allow better ventilation, means that a large number of children will end up off school again anyway when there are local lockdowns or massive bubbles that need isolating because a few pupils have coronavirus.

Private schools might be ok, as they have the space and resources to make it work.

The government seems to be doing NOTHING to help schools open safely. Schools are pretty much left to see if they can reduce transmission on their own and if they can't it's tough - crack on anyway and let the virus spread and schools become outbreak centres. Which will inevitably result in kids being off school again sooner or later.

If the virus is left to run rampant that means more school closures (and more deaths) - why people are arguing against funding those simple measures that are proven to reduce spread is beyond me. Other countries are doing this - it doesn't eliminate the risk but massively reduces it.

I've written to my MP about this. The government is not funding schools in order to allow them to open safely. But there's money to pay for a half a restaurant bill - it's literally insane.

I'm writing to my MP because if they proceed as planned my daughter will probably miss half of next year too and that is not something I want.

What people don't understand is that the government's objective is to flatten the curve. This is all SD and face coverings are for.

However if with bubbles and local lockdown the curve can also remain flattened this allows schools to reopen.

There is no such thing as safe. The government has published risk reduction measures for schools.

Some teachers are under the impression face coverings would allow them to be 'safe'. This has never been what they are for, and obviously wouldn't work in a school environment. They are not PPE! This is only required for staff looking after covid positive or possible cases. Not the general population.

I know it's hard to comprehend. But we all must take our chances. Or if we are not prepared to do that, make some very significant changes to our lives

What people don't understand is that the government's objective is to flatten the curve

What some people don’t understand is that teachers have a far better idea than they do about just how fucking incompetent the DfE are.

If you trust them to have done a good job on this you are simply an idiot.

There’s a stubborn streak in a certain proportion of the British population that’s well represented in government. Imagine if we’d erred on the side of caution and taken swift action like New Zealand. Our kids could now go back to school as normal.

The stubborn streak is very apparent on Mumsnet. It has been since the beginning of this crisis.

I cannot keep my child locked up until we know what the long term implications of the virus are.

We are careful, we are socially distancing and doing all we can to avoid catching the virus.

But disrupting their lives for however long it takes for those disease to be gone. And the mental health implications of that?

Time then you’ll be arguing for a safer reopening of schools than is currently planned, to avoid further closures like is happening in other countries like Israel - directly attributed to their poorly planned re-opening?

@noblegiraffe I wasn't one of the 'idiots' who voted this government in!

However for whatever reason people did. So now we are where we are.

The guidelines will have had input from PHE. Unions. Headteacher representatives and many more. Not just DfE don't worry!

@openplankitchen

What people don't understand is that the government's objective is to flatten the curve. This is all SD and face coverings are for.

However if with bubbles and local lockdown the curve can also remain flattened this allows schools to reopen.

There is no such thing as safe. The government has published risk reduction measures for schools.

Some teachers are under the impression face coverings would allow them to be 'safe'. This has never been what they are for, and obviously wouldn't work in a school environment. They are not PPE! This is only required for staff looking after covid positive or possible cases. Not the general population.

I know it's hard to comprehend. But we all must take our chances. Or if we are not prepared to do that, make some very significant changes to our lives

Wrong! You're about 4 months behind here. Yes initially that was the plan, when they thought it was just a nasty respiratory infection, but as they've learned more, more about long term effects, more about it being a while body systemic infection, - well that changed. They are now trying for eradication. Or at least minimising community transmission. Flattening the curve was still when they were in herd immunity thinking, otherwise it doesn't make any sense. They are now denying they even said such a thing, despite the video evidence, because it is now apparent what a dangerous plan that was. Keep up...

We are careful, we are socially distancing and doing all we can to avoid catching the virus.

But we're not. That's what we're arguing about the government is NOT 'doing all we can to avoid catching the virus' they are not funding schools to do this. They are taking a course of action that will allow the virus to spread. Quite clearly.

If they were doing everything possible then that would be fine - risk cannot be eliminated completely. But the government is not even taking the most basic steps to reduce risk in schools (extra money for cleaning for example).

noble i have faith in our school.

PPE for instance is available.

I have absolutely no faith in the government. As far as I can tell, its basically down to us as individuals. I will do what is right for my family.

I did want was right for my family last year. I never voted Tory. So many did. Probably some of those complaining loudest now.

I can assure you the guidelines had no input whatsoever from unions or headteachers. This is widely known.

It is not an effective plan to keep telling teachers not to worry. People should be more worried that these professionals ARE worried. if a doctor or nurse told you they were worried, would you also dismiss them?

Nobody is under the illusion that cloth masks are PPE, but they do reduce spread if everyone is wearing them in poorly ventilated crowded rooms aka classrooms. Any small reduction in risk, if it can be reasonably achieved, is great and should be grasped!
I know schools are not risk free, nothing is, but the current guidelines are purely PR for parents benefit. Schools send out positive letters to parents but teachers and SLT know how crap it is.
Schools should be funded for extra cleaning, extra temporary toilet blocks. Rotas should be allowed for secondary (blended learning), where true bubbles are not possible.
Instead we have a pr exercise that is useless in practice.

What happens to MH when, under government plans, students go back in to extra tutoring, no alterations to exams, endless catch up and testing,extra exams yo yoing in and out of school due to absences and track and trace and a schooling system where teachers and TAs are effectively told to put a 2 m forcefield around them and teach from a distance?

No one had yet explained how this even begins to work for TAs, essential for many SEN students'' progress and MH.

Sadly @WhyNotMe40 unless/until there is a vaccine all we can do is flatten the curve.

@openplankitchen

Sadly *@WhyNotMe40* unless/until there is a vaccine all we can do is flatten the curve.

Nope, wrong again. We can minimise community transmission

Otherwise known as flattening the curve

Flattening the curve is about purposefully allowing a controlled amount of infection - just below what can be copied with. It's not the same thing at all.

I'm a teacher, I want schools to reopened. But I want measures that reduce the chance of them having to close again. I'd like extra funding for hygiene - to pay cleaners to clean toilets and common area throughout the day and also any equipment that is shared between groups, also to install extra outdoor sinks for increased hand washing - but the government guidance says no extra funding, that shows you how little they care about schools. With extra hygiene it would hopefully reduce other common winter bugs which would mean less isolation for all. But no, the government don't want to fund schools. This is the problem.

It doesn't matter how you refer to it. The government can 'minimise community transmission' by SD and face coverings. Or bubbles and local lockdowns. Which are more appropriate for schools