Schools Reopening?

[ClimbDad]

A major, peer reviewed study into transmission in South Korea has established that tweens and teenagers spread the SARSCOV2 virus more than any other age group.

The study involved more than 65,000 people and used South Korea’s exceptionally effective contact tracing system to look at who brought the virus into households. Tweens and teenagers were the highest index case age group. Younger children transmitted at the same rate as 20-somethings.

This is a large scale, rigorous piece of research that proves children are effective at transmitting the virus. It was conducted in a country that implements strict social distancing and mask wearing among children. The authors say the rate of transmission would have been higher if children weren’t subjected to those measures.

Plans to reopen schools more or less as normal in September will place many lives at risk, and increase the likelihood schools will have to close again. The government needs to acknowledge schools will be highly efficient vectors of viral transmission and change its reopening plans.

Published Paper:
wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315_article

Article on the paper:

www.bloombergquint.com/business/covid-19-spread-fastest-by-teens-and-tweens-korea-study-finds

We are not being told the truth about the current risks of Covid - our government twists and bends and hides the truth to suit it's agenda. That should be obvious to all. So of course everyone should be wary. We all need to question - everything we are being told and encouraged, by government, to do - needs to be questioned.

I have one foot in both camps. Part of me desperately wants school to start again - my kids need it to. Part of me thinks it's a stupendous idea.

Am I willing to risk my kids' lives and health as part of this latest Covid experiment? At the moment I don't know ... one of my kids was classed as vulnerable but now amazingly, mysteriously, unfathomably - isn't.

I'm taking it day by day to see where we end up in September. I'm not one tiny bit frightened of fines. If I don't feel my kids should be in school at the start of term - they won't be.

I'll keep researching as much as possible and look after my own - knowing that our government does not give one tiny teeny shit about my family or any other.

I'm not worried about dying from Covid. Maybe I should be. I'm far more worried about the long term health impacts of the virus - for my kids mostly (but also for me).

That French study has been widely discredited. It was based on 3 children not spreading the virus.

Swiss, German, American, British, Israeli, New Zealand and Australian scientists have all shown children are highly effective transmitters of the virus. The South Korean study cited in the first post of this thread is significant.

There have been 197 Covid outbreaks in English schools since June 1st. Public Health England in collaboration with the Universities of Manchester and Cambridge demonstrated schools play a significant role in driving community transmission

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.24.20139634v1.full.pdf+html

What if you and the people who think like you are wrong? What is the impact of your decision to ignore a growing body of evidence? Tens of thousands more will die of Covid this coming winter. This isn’t a theoretical debate. Lives are at stake.

There’s a stubborn streak in a certain proportion of the British population that’s well represented in government. Imagine if we’d erred on the side of caution and taken swift action like New Zealand. Our kids could now go back to school as normal.

Instead of learning from our mistakes, we’re going to double down on our carelessness, send children back to school, invite a second wave and make things worse. If schools are opened as normal, I have no doubt there will be mass closures before the end of the year.

Schools can only stay open if community transmission is low. In order to prevent schools driving community transmission, there need to be smaller class sizes and strict infection controls in schools.

If schools do open more or less as normal in September, don’t say people didn’t try to warn about what would happen next.

@ClimbDad But schools are not ‘returning to normal’??! Why on earth do you think they are? Are you a teacher or do you have kids in school? If so then you would have had numerous communications by now about strict plans for September which are far far from normal. Staggered times, parts of school shut off for each year group, different entrances and exits, specialist rooms not in use for most year groups - it goes in and on... how can you make this post yet not know this?
Im afraid you have well and truly ‘drunk the kool aid’ on Covid 19. There are as many positive research stories as there are negative ones if you look!

@Time2change2 despite all the superficial things schools are doing to create the illusion of bubbles they are instantly broken by siblings, public transport, wider social groups, teachers moving across all year groups for instance. Totally agree with OPs most recent post.

Who is teaching the 33% not in school?

If 33% are to have home learning - there needs to be a consistent standard in what the schools provide. My DC haven’t received any support since March. It’s very disappointing, I’m a bit incredulous that the school thought this was acceptable. Appreciate the bar was set low, disappointing that the school didn’t recognise this and decided it was fine for staff to have the time off (I know several staff members before the teachers pile on at this comment). I appreciate other schools did more.

@Pomegranatepompom if you know the teachers why didn't you ask them where the work for your child was ?

Emailed school several tines. As did other parents. We’re now using a tutor. Shame for the families who can’t afford this.

It’s a leadership problem, not teachers decision?

A very small number of children have been affected by PIMS-TS during lockdown. One of the theories being advanced is that these children caught Covid19 twice and have experienced something called antibody dependent enhancement.

www.wired.co.uk/article/coronavirus-children-pims-ts

Antibody dependent enhancement is a serious problem if it proves to be a feature of this virus, but the only way to definitively prove whether it’s happening is for a sufficient number of people to be exposed to second infection (or through vaccine challenge).

Already the signs are there that ADE could be a feature of Covid19, but most people are dismissing these tales of more serious second infection as anomalous.

www.businessinsider.com/nashville-man-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-twice-2020-7

www.nature.com/articles/s41587-020-0577-1

Without knowing more about the effects of this virus on children and adults, we’re essentially going to be using children, teachers and other staff as guinea pigs in a mass live experiment if schools reopen more or less as normal in September.

Then there’s the long term impact of infection on children. We have no idea what this virus does but we’re already seeing some children join the ranks of Long Covid sufferers with fever for 90+ days, fatigue, persistent coughs, brain fog and so on. No one is reporting on this, but it’s happening. The only question is how much.

Be under no illusions, this virus causes chronic conditions.

news.berkeley.edu/2020/07/08/from-lung-scarring-to-heart-damage-covid-19-may-leave-lingering-marks/

In Florida, they’re finding that children who test positive but are asymptomatic, still have scarring in their lungs.

www.winknews.com/2020/07/17/health-officials-worry-about-long-term-effects-of-covid-19-on-kids/

If you want to gamble that a pandemic illness will be kind to you and your family, that’s your choice. Based on what we already know about this virus, I don’t think that’s a good bet.

Whether or not children are badly affected (and I agree we still don't know what the long-term effects on those who've suffered even mildly), if these studies are correct it is their role in community transmission that we need to worry about. If numerous children are picking it up at school then they can pass it to their households. If schools are to open as normal, then rigorous social distancing or mask wearing needs to take place everywhere else.

If 33% are to have home learning - there needs to be a consistent standard in what the schools provide.

If teachers are in school teaching, the online stuff cannot happen as they won't have time.

The study mentioned in the OP is in the Times today..

Teenagers can spread the coronavirus as well as adults but young children are far less likely to transmit the pathogen, a study by South Korean researchers has found.

The study, published in the journal Emerging Infectious Diseases, warned, however, that reopening schools could result in young children spreading the virus in the community.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/teens-are-just-as-infectious-as-adults-spw6cmkbv

Also in the press that

"Full-time reopening of Scottish schools ‘not settled’ for August, warns education chief Stephen McCabe"

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/full-time-reopening-of-scottish-schools-not-settled-for-august-warns-education-chief-stephen-mccabe-wkjgcsv2j

More here as well

www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/coronavirus-scotland-schools-reopening-full-18623162

School bubbles are nonsense. It's just a nice bit of terminology that makes everything sound fluffy and safe.

The reality is bubbles in schools are a fallacy. No one in education really believes bubbles will exist or make a difference.

My role in my infant school is to cover PPA. I go between classes across the school, teaching 270 children each week.

It's infants so there is no social distancing.

I'm also in the vulnerable category where I was initially told to shocked and then my consultant said I didn't need to. So I'm in the group where you need to take extra care.

I've actually begun to take myself out of that in recent weeks and try to get myself doing more, whilst observing SDing, mask wearing and hand washing, etc. Mainly because I need to be feeling confident about having a pretty normal life by September 1st.

Our school will have class groups of 30, but year group bubbles of 90 to allow for playtimes etc to happen. Each year group bubble also has 6-10 members of staff attached. My personal work bubble will be the whole school.

As much as we are making plans to be as safe as possible, bubbles in secondary schools, in particular, are a nonsense. They are broken by transport, toilets, corridors, canteens and teachers.

But schools are not ‘returning to normal’??! Why on earth do you think they are?

I’m afraid that in secondary schools the “guidelines” are a massive PITA for teachers with very little actual benefit.
I will have a class of 30, as usual. That’s for an hour at a time. Children sitting next to each other.
Children will mix on the corridors.
Staggered break times - but only KS3 and 4 at different times because otherwise we can’t run a full TT.
KS3/4 staggered start and finish.
Hand sanitiser
No additional washing facilities
Children can use text books - no need for them to be their own copy.

So. My working day is longer. I have additional social time duties. I can’t teach as I want to because I have to stay at the front of the class. I can’t behaviour manage as I want. I can’t help children in the way I want. I’ll have to teach in a way that flies in the face of everything I know to be true about good teaching. If a child I teach is tested positive I do not have to self isolate or test (because it’s my responsibility to stay 2 m away from children and the govt are peddling the line that children don’t spread). And I also have to be able to move seamlessly to an online curriculum at the drop of a hat, despite the fact 50% of my kids don’t have access to tech/WiFi.

So excuse me if I’m flipping furious about how this is being handled.

@SmileEachDay

But schools are not ‘returning to normal’??! Why on earth do you think they are?

I’m afraid that in secondary schools the “guidelines” are a massive PITA for teachers with very little actual benefit.
I will have a class of 30, as usual. That’s for an hour at a time. Children sitting next to each other.
Children will mix on the corridors.
Staggered break times - but only KS3 and 4 at different times because otherwise we can’t run a full TT.
KS3/4 staggered start and finish.
Hand sanitiser
No additional washing facilities
Children can use text books - no need for them to be their own copy.

So. My working day is longer. I have additional social time duties. I can’t teach as I want to because I have to stay at the front of the class. I can’t behaviour manage as I want. I can’t help children in the way I want. I’ll have to teach in a way that flies in the face of everything I know to be true about good teaching. If a child I teach is tested positive I do not have to self isolate or test (because it’s my responsibility to stay 2 m away from children and the govt are peddling the line that children don’t spread). And I also have to be able to move seamlessly to an online curriculum at the drop of a hat, despite the fact 50% of my kids don’t have access to tech/WiFi.

So excuse me if I’m flipping furious about how this is being handled.

@SmileEachDay This will also be my working day come September. It would be interesting to see how many other secondary teachers are facing the same problems due to the guidance.

Another secondary school teacher here facing the same. In addition my children's grandparent has terminal cancer. I cannot resign in time for September. Do I risk catching it at school and passing it on, or do I stop my children seeing their grandparent in their final months?
It's a hard choice.
I would be A LOT happier if masks were advised for all who can wear them.

Aragog I'm in the same position as you, except I'm PPA across a whole primary. My "bubble" is 420 plus adults! Oh, and one 20 minute break all day, of which I will spend at least 10 getting ready for the afternoon, because I am full-on in the morning with a 1:1 child.

SLT have worked so hard on those in school and providing home learning that I feel I need to leave them alone for a few weeks before I send my long list of "but what about" and "how will x work".

So @Time2change2 thinks that the people complaining haven’t seen the ‘strict and safe’ plans for secondary and are talking from a position of ignorance?

Whereas they’re actually talking to the secondary teachers who will be implementing those plans and who know exactly how useless those plans will be?

My children and other children need school and they need the school environment and the socialisation that comes with it.

My eldest missed more than 1/2 of her school year just like every one of her cohorts.

Keeping schools shut isn't an option in my opinion.

The vast majority of people who die or are seriously ill are very elderly. We can't forget the children and i am astonished that so many parents want their children forgotten about.

Keeping schools shut isn't an option in my opinion

Another one for the ‘if you’re not happy with the current plans you’re arguing for schools to stay shut’ bin.

noble my eldest has not been in school since 19th March. School has been shut to her.

Same for my DD, Time. What’s your point given that no one is arguing for schools to stay shut?