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Schools Reopening?

999 replies

ClimbDad · 19/07/2020 09:00

A major, peer reviewed study into transmission in South Korea has established that tweens and teenagers spread the SARSCOV2 virus more than any other age group.

The study involved more than 65,000 people and used South Korea’s exceptionally effective contact tracing system to look at who brought the virus into households. Tweens and teenagers were the highest index case age group. Younger children transmitted at the same rate as 20-somethings.

This is a large scale, rigorous piece of research that proves children are effective at transmitting the virus. It was conducted in a country that implements strict social distancing and mask wearing among children. The authors say the rate of transmission would have been higher if children weren’t subjected to those measures.

Plans to reopen schools more or less as normal in September will place many lives at risk, and increase the likelihood schools will have to close again. The government needs to acknowledge schools will be highly efficient vectors of viral transmission and change its reopening plans.

Published Paper:
wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315_article

Article on the paper:

www.bloombergquint.com/business/covid-19-spread-fastest-by-teens-and-tweens-korea-study-finds

OP posts:
sunseekin · 19/07/2020 17:52

@mumsneedwine hope it came across that I was as disbelieving as you.

I really don’t think it will stay like this. I think the unions must be waiting for the pausing date to decide how they best need to proceed. It’s not workable and it wouldn’t give anyone the best outcome. Even those that don’t have any regard for teachers safety (not sure they’re real tbh!). Schools just won’t be able to operate and students can’t be supported.

How do you talk to that child that needs that quiet private reassuring word at the end of a lesson if you’ve got wheel your trolley off with everything that you need for the day.

And as I think someone said above, who is responsible for all the classes left unattended? And toilet breaks. The whole thing is unworkable.

lifeafter50 · 19/07/2020 17:55

How bizarre to accuse me of being another poster! I am a teacher and I care about teaching kids. The danger is completely out of proportion. I want to go back to school in September without any mask or distancing rubbish because it is an artificial construct that was pour out there to give the gullible 'confidence'.
You cannot keep people 100% 'safe' and life has to go one. The shielding and lockdown was to prevent TV scenes like those in Lombardy, not to keep the entire population safe'. It did what it was intended to but people seem to have misunderstood.

mumsneedwine · 19/07/2020 17:56

@sunseekin just wish they'd ask us for ideas to make it work. Treat us like adults !

mumsneedwine · 19/07/2020 17:57

@lifeafter50 did you miss my post. About a 16 year old now with long term health issues. It is rare, I agree. But that's not much comfier if it's your child.

mumsneedwine · 19/07/2020 17:58

Comfort. Not sure why I decided to speak French.

Enoughnowstop · 19/07/2020 17:58

Keeping teachers 'safe' is not what education is about

How much education do you think is going to take place when schools are opening and closing and staff are off on long term sick and, inevitably, deaths occur?

lifeafter50 · 19/07/2020 17:59

@pebble21k -okay to call 5 year olds trolls????? How very unorthodox.

Pebble21uk · 19/07/2020 17:59

So you're not another poster life ...I see you are a conspiracy theorist instead. Even better! (grabs popcorn)

I'd still like to know what vulnerable and shielded teaching staff should do? If your answer is to resign then you'll see a huge teacher shortage by Christmas!

SmileEachDay · 19/07/2020 17:59

I want to go back to school in September without any mask or distancing rubbish because it is an artificial construct that was pour out there to give the gullible 'confidence'

I mean, that’s not how masks or distancing work - I hope you’re not a science teacher!!

Do you work in an independent school?

mumsneedwine · 19/07/2020 18:00

@Enoughnowstop I don't understand how people don't get it. Teachers get sick school closes as not enough teachers. It's so simple to get 🧐

TaxTheRatFarms · 19/07/2020 18:02

Masks Children cannot be trusted to use them correctly all day every day - I don;t care that other countires have adopted their use, this still dosen't mean they are being used in the correct manner

I find this attitude so depressing. My kids grew up in a country where mask wearing is normal, and there was none of this concern about kids not “managing”. You give them the mask, teach them how to wear it safely, and off they go. They don’t fiddle with them in class any more than they start unbuttoning their shirts, or taking a shoe off and balancing it on their head.

Telling your children that they can’t possibly manage to wear a mask safely is pretty damaging to their self confidence. Teach them how to do it safely and have high expectations.

Again, where my kids grew up, elementary school kids walked to school by themselves, sometimes alone, usually in a walking bus with one adult. Elementary students caught trains completely alone and walked to school at the other end. They wore masks without fiddling with them and spreading infection.

As a teacher, we get a lot of training on how we can build resilience in our students as some really need help with this, and with attitudes like “children cannot be trusted to use a mask properly” I’m not surprised!

I mean, my 11 year old will have to wear a tie next term. Not an elastic or clip on, but a “proper” tie. He has no idea how to put it on. That doesn’t mean I throw my hands up and say “well you can’t possibly be expected to learn, so don’t even bother trying, it’s beyond you,” and watch his self esteem crash through the floor.

Our kids’ current school put in their newsletters that “describing our students as a lost generation, and telling them that their education has been irretrievably damaged is incredibly damaging to their emotional/mental state” and parents need to be as positive as possible that their children can still have a positive future. I think that’s a really important message.

mumsneedwine · 19/07/2020 18:06

@TaxTheRatFarms my students have come in with masks as they know I'm vulnerable. They care enough to look after me as best they can. My own DD has been working on the Covid ward and I also have a duty of care to them. The kids get it when you explain. Had one parent complain I was wearing a mask. Their own child turned up the next day wearing one and said they'd told their mum off.

Mistressiggi · 19/07/2020 18:08

That's an interesting point @CKBJ, it would obviously make it safer for children to be at school if others things were more restricted.
Lifeafter50, I might have thought the same as you about periods until I was actually heading for 50, and the joys of perimenopause appeared. A lot of older men also have prostate issues that affect their frequency of urination.

CKBJ · 19/07/2020 18:11

@TaxTheRatFarms agree with what you are saying, especially the point about ties. My DCs primary school introduced these 3 years ago, parents up roar but no one complains now-well definitely not loudly!

FrippEnos · 19/07/2020 18:12

lifeafter50
If teachers don't want to go back to work, resign.

this is what makes me think that you are not a teacher. If you were you would know that resigning now would mean leaving in January.

As for the snide comment about de-escalating. Making another goady comment isn't going to help, maybe you should put your de-escalation talents a try.

mumsneedwine · 19/07/2020 18:13

@Mistressiggi ah the hot sweat in the middle of a lesson. I go purple and sweat a lot. First time kids see it they are quite alarmed but then it becomes a joke. Oh Miss is flushing again. I conquer the loo thing by not drinking all day. Stupid I know but have had the odd accident before did it. Things they never teach you in your NQT year 🤣

SengaStrawberry · 19/07/2020 18:14

I find this attitude so depressing. My kids grew up in a country where mask wearing is normal, and there was none of this concern about kids not “managing”.

I find routine mask wearing outside of the context of a pandemic even more depressing. I’m so glad not to live in a country where mask wearing is the norm and I hope it never is here either.

FrippEnos · 19/07/2020 18:15

lifeafter50

Keeping teachers 'safe' is not what education is about.

Keeping your employees safe is a legal requirement, whether in an education environment or not.

Pebble21uk · 19/07/2020 18:17

Very wise words TaxTheRatFarms & and born from experience too.

ohthegoats · 19/07/2020 18:24

If that was the case I wonder if people would still be so keen to get kids all back to school?!

Schools should have gone back first, before anything else opened - starting off small, and increasing if things stayed safe. Could have started that before summer half term, but it didnt fit idiot Johnson's narrative of 1st June normality. He's a dick, Wiliamson is weak, unions (particularly NAHT) didnt get their suggestions right. They need to talk loudly about evidence (if they had it) for small groups being safe. You could have easily started with volunteers, because apparently, there are at least 2 teachers desperate to risk their lives for education, then others would have been more convinced as it was proven (maybe) to be safe. They'd have needed to have been honest though, talked to the public about risk, told us about cases.. that way we might have all been back in June, parents would have been reassured, staff would have been reassured. But no, because weak leadership and outright dishonesty at almost every turn.

Whoever told me off for insulting someone - if I'd been told to stop panicking and patronised and insulted by someone to my face, I'd have responded in exactly the same way.

ohthegoats · 19/07/2020 18:26

I should add, that when my school asked for volunteers to work easter weekend, everyone volunteered.

Pebble21uk · 19/07/2020 18:37

So what are thoughts on how to have these discussions on a platform other than an internet forum? One that has the potential to make a difference?

The usual line is 'write to your MP' - but mine, for instance, is so far into Johnson's pocket (to put it politely) it would have zero recognition. I know becuse I've written and tweeted her on other topics before!

The unions - but they seem to have gone very quiet?

Media - mainstream media needs to take an interest in the discussion?

I don't know - I'm interested to hear thoughts

Piggywaspushed · 19/07/2020 18:40

people who tested positive for Covid three month before they die of a road accident

There is not a single example of this you know!

lifeafter50 · 19/07/2020 18:40

Completely agree.
And for those who say 'you can't be a teacher or you would be whining like us' /not all of us are having the vapours over a risk that is too small to be computable.
Re resignation-you can resign and walk out any time you like if you genuinely feel you are in danger. Sure you won't get a reference but the school will not sue you for breach of contract. Children deserve calm, rational and resilient teachers, not one that fuel the fear with ridiculous masks - and visors of all things!

lifeafter50 · 19/07/2020 18:41

I mean, completely agree that schools should have gone back first.