With this virus England now needs to be treated separately to the rest of the UK

[annabel85]

When you look at the daily figures the death rate in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland is usually always now 0 or very low single digits with even infection rates in the single digits per day.

England on the other hand is recording 100+ death rates most days and a few hundred new cases. The fact Scotland, Wales and N Ireland are so low is giving England a false sense of security.

Therefore we're at the point where England's figures should be reported separately. The other home nations have took the virus seriously and not rushed to ease restrictions until the rates were low enough and more stringent rules.

It's not the 'UK' that is announcing more deaths every day than the rest of EU put together it's England announcing more deaths than the rest of Europe including the home nations.

[quote PaddyF0dder]@Artesia

Ideally:

• each country closes borders
• eradicates (it effectively eradicates) within their borders
• upon eradication, each border only opens borders to other eradicated countries[/quote]

And who is going to pay all the people who work on either side of the border when we lose our jobs?

@Greysparkles

There’s a difference between trade and tourism. And if you can’t see that then there’s little anyone can do for you.

Viruses can be, and have been, EFFECTIVELY eradicated without vaccinations. It is entirely possible, and probably better for the economy than the uncertainty of chronic intermittent lockdowns.

Well @annabel85 aka Nicola - how are you finding your responses....

lots of anti English posts has you had hoped or a fair response to your divisive posting.... keep up the talk for the SNP. I always thought Scotland a beautiful country but get really annoyed at how some Scots feel the need to constantly bash the English for anything at all ...Anglophobia is high in some people - have a lovely day - smile a little

as not has .....oh dear!

In fact I was so certain that Nicola or some similar Angliophobic had posted this I thought I would have a little look... You really do hate the 'English' don't you

Took a minute to find similar anti English posts from @annabel85 as quoted:

annabel85 Wed 01-Jul-20 16:50:41
I think the mask on transport issue highlights well the English attitude to the whole thing. Make an attempt to follow the rules to show compliance (in this case wear a mask on public transport) but bend the rules as much as you can get away with (only wear it properly at a point where you might be challenged for not doing so).

[quote PaddyF0dder]@Artesia

Ideally:

• each country closes borders
• eradicates (it effectively eradicates) within their borders
• upon eradication, each border only opens borders to other eradicated countries[/quote]

If you're waiting for a sufficient numbers of countries to 'effectively eradicate' the virus (however that be defined) and are assuming that those countries will have enough people ready and willing to visit your country for tourism and will be happy to restrict themselves to those other countries which have 'effectively eradicated' the virus, then that's a highly unlikely scenario.

Also, can your own citizens not visit their family if they live in countries which have not 'effectively eradicated' the virus?

@IcedPurple

“ Also, can your own citizens not visit their family if they live in countries which have not 'effectively eradicated' the virus?”

That’s the situation that many families (mine included) have been in anyway.

@ResumetonormalASAP

I think it’s simplistic to equate voting SNP with being anglophobic. It is not fundamentally xenophobic to want your country to run its affairs.

I assume you’re English, and would be rather against england being ruled by, I dunno, botswana. But that does not mean you’re botswanaphobic.

It is not fundamentally xenophobic to want your country to run its affairs

That’s not what Scotland were saying about ‘the English’ when the leave vote won.

That’s the situation that many families (mine included) have been in anyway.

But you're happy for that to go for years?

Because the virus is unlikely to be 'effectively eradicated' in any but a tiny handful of countries for years to come, and even one single asymptomatic case could bugger that up.

And if you're Scottish and want to 'close the borders' with England, presumably you'd be very happy for the more than half a million Scots resident in England not to be allowed to visit family for potentially years to come?

@lousleftkneelies

Quite remarkable that you think a landmass (not even a population) speaks with a voice.

@IcedPurple

Certainly not. But it does not need to take years to get there. SARS burned itself out. A different virus of course, but the same rules broadly apply.

The zero covid approach seems to be the most sensible. The alternating lockdown model is dependent on a vaccine to provide an ending. We may never get one. And the long uncertainty of alternating lockdowns will be far more damaging.

PaddyF0dder

Scotland as in the Scottish people or residents of Scotland, I’m not going to offensively refer to peopled ‘the’ as if they are a species.

[quote PaddyF0dder]@IcedPurple

Certainly not. But it does not need to take years to get there. SARS burned itself out. A different virus of course, but the same rules broadly apply.

The zero covid approach seems to be the most sensible. The alternating lockdown model is dependent on a vaccine to provide an ending. We may never get one. And the long uncertainty of alternating lockdowns will be far more damaging.[/quote]
You say 'certainly not'. But your recommendation of a ;zero covid approach' (whatever that is) and closing borders to all but countries that have 'effectively eradicated' the virus suggusts precisely that.

Do you want Scotland to 'close its borders' with England? And if England has not 'effectively eradicated' the virus but Scotland has, how do the half a million and more Scots who happily make their homes in disease ridden England fit into your plan?

And SARS did not 'burn itself out'. It was effectively contained before it could become a global pandemic in 2003. It's too late for that for Covid, and it's also a lot more infectious.

Incase you didn't notice... the massive population difference?

England - 56m
Scotland - 5m
Wales - 3m
N Ireland - 1.8m

Quite simply put, there's a fuck tonne more people in England to get sick. Scotland has only 0.1m more people than Yorkshire alone.

@CorianderLord

So by that logic (per head population) you’d expect England to have 10 times more covid cases than Scotland.

It doesn’t though, does it?

@IcedPurple

I’d recommend reading about the zero covid approach, as you seem not to have heard of it. It’s an approach being explicitly followed by some countries, such as NZ and Scotland.

There’s only 3 foreseeable endings to this pandemic:

• eradication (zero covid). Undeniably inconvenient and challenging, but not impossible
• vaccination. Possible but uncertain
• herd immunity. Which is basically natural selection for those who survive infection. And unfortunately we don’t know of immunity lasts.

So: which should we aim for?

PaddyF0dder

You know the answers to all the points you are arguing you just want Scottish ‘borders’ closed.

Don’t fool yourself that ‘the English’ are desperate to get it in.

@lousleftkneelies

Not really. I’ve got friends and family in England. We were meant to go on holiday there this summer.

I want covid beaten. If this means quarantine people from more infected areas, then so be it. It’s not about nationality or politics. It’s about extinguishing an infection.

eradication (zero covid). Undeniably inconvenient and challenging, but not impossible

How is eradication possible in a realistic timeframe?

[quote PaddyF0dder]@IcedPurple

I’d recommend reading about the zero covid approach, as you seem not to have heard of it. It’s an approach being explicitly followed by some countries, such as NZ and Scotland.

There’s only 3 foreseeable endings to this pandemic:

• eradication (zero covid). Undeniably inconvenient and challenging, but not impossible
• vaccination. Possible but uncertain
• herd immunity. Which is basically natural selection for those who survive infection. And unfortunately we don’t know of immunity lasts.

So: which should we aim for?[/quote]
Before I answer your question, could you please answer the question I've put to you twice?

To repeat yet again:

Do you want Scotland to 'close its borders' with England? And if England has not 'effectively eradicated' the virus but Scotland has, how do the half a million and more Scots who happily make their homes in disease ridden England fit into your plan?

I should also add that what may - or may not, time will tell - work for NZ, an island in the middle of the South Pacific, whose closest major neighbour is 2000 km away, has much lower chances of success for Scotland, a European nation which is part of a country (though the active choice of its own electorate) with nearly 70 million people. That's why an answer to the above question, which you are evading, would be interesting.

@Artesia

Scotland is on course for effective eradication by late July or early August.

New Zealand is essentially there.

So, eradication within countries can seemingly be done in a matter of months if we allocate resources.

This is all new. Our society has never faced something like this, on this scale, before. But it seems far more realistic right now than other options.

@IcedPurple

Apologies. I certainly hadn’t been intentionally evading it.

The short answer is “yes”, but that answer is disingenuous.

What I really want is for Britain to act together, as as island, to quash this disease before rushing to reopening. Westminster has rushed reopening, when infection remains far too high. Scotland has done it slower, and infections remain low even while taking into account difference in population.

My family is an international one. My parents have not seen their grandkids in months, and it is tearing them apart. It’s horrific, so I totally acknowledge how awful this would be for families who are caught between quarantines.

On the other hand, Scotland is on course for eradication by the end of summer. Ask yourself why england is not, and also ask yourself why we should sacrifice that progress.

@PaddyF0dder

Replyi9ng to your post I think it’s simplistic to equate voting SNP with being anglophobic. It is not fundamentally xenophobic to want your country to run its affairs.

The thing is though that Scotland had the chance to leave and voted to stay. They also have a devolved parliament so make lots of their own decisions. It's the ones that just cannot move on and spend so much time moaning...

What I was commenting on was the constant negative posts against the English.... it's almost like some people blame the English for everything....

I don’t dispute that it’s possible for individual
countries to eradicate the virus, that’s not the issue. The question is “what then”? There is no practical way to ensure global co-operation so that all countries take the necessary steps at the same time, there’s no realistic way to ensure accurate reporting from all countries, and lastly in many countries the unimaginable hardship caused by the steps needed to eradicate the virus may outweigh the benefits of doing so.