With this virus England now needs to be treated separately to the rest of the UK

[annabel85]

When you look at the daily figures the death rate in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland is usually always now 0 or very low single digits with even infection rates in the single digits per day.

England on the other hand is recording 100+ death rates most days and a few hundred new cases. The fact Scotland, Wales and N Ireland are so low is giving England a false sense of security.

Therefore we're at the point where England's figures should be reported separately. The other home nations have took the virus seriously and not rushed to ease restrictions until the rates were low enough and more stringent rules.

It's not the 'UK' that is announcing more deaths every day than the rest of EU put together it's England announcing more deaths than the rest of Europe including the home nations.

I'm not in England but I know Scots who are absolutely appalled at the way England (specifically the cabinet in Westminster) have handled this and don't want the English crossing the border at the moment.

Well you only know a few people i guess. Most of us want the country back on its feet and we need tourism to help that.
And there isnt actually a border as people think of, nobody patrols it, it's too long and has too many roads crossing it to even contemplate 'closing it's. It's a line on a map.

I live in Scotland yet work in England i cross back and forth frequently. How do I and countless others fit their narrative?

The pop of Scotland is minute compared to England with much more rural areas, islands. Highlands which are sparsely populated of course our numbers are much lower. Don't kid yourself Saint Nic has saved us and even she has dismissed border restrictions.

I'll bet the hotel owners, restaurant managers, publicans etc were very happy to hear them however.
None of these places are open in Scotland yet.
All our local pubs were busy today people sitting outside enjoying the sun. People staying at the caravan site..they often come from all over Scotland never mind England too but I presume if they are from elsewhere in Scotland them that's ok? Plus I know Scots born and bred here with not a trace of a Scottish accent they talk like thier parents did. How the hell do you know for sure where someone comes from. We don't all talk in a generic broad Glesga twang you know.

Edinburgh here. Huge piss ups in parks, idiots ignoring mask wearing rules on buses, teenagers gathering in large groups, police breaking up parties etc etc etc.

The idea that Scottish people are somehow better at lockdown is farcical and must surely only be getting airtime to make a political point.

@ThatDamnScientist

OK - so you think England 'continues to fuck up', whereas Scotland et al have it correct. What do you want England to do NOW - lock down again? Re shut the shops, keep people off work longer?

Stats show that 21 people were recorded as dying with or of Covid in England. Patients were aged between 72 and 96 years old.

0 Wales and 0 Scotland today.

You do realise that more than 21 people died in England today of other causes? People die of many different things. My nephew died of suicide during lock down. People have died of cancer during lockdown. The only thing that matters to people like @annabel85 appears to be virus deaths whether with it or of it.

Well some of us think that although those 21 people over the age of 76 recorded as dying with or of covid are important but realise that the working population needs to work, the schools need to educate, people need to live to help their mental health etc etc etc.

I know the figures get broken down but England as a nation, and specifically governance, needs to get a grip on why Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are reporting zero (or very few) deaths every day and few rates of infection. Obviously England will be higher because of population but even look at England compared to Spain or Italy now who got blindsided by the virus a few weeks earlier.

We're still not taking it seriously and the figures show Scotland, Wales and Ireland are.

What are you talking about ? First of all we have a lot more people than all of these 3 !!

He would go and help rebuild the wall if he could.
I'm not in England but I know Scots who are absolutely appalled at the way England (specifically the cabinet in Westminster) have handled this and don't want the English crossing the border at the moment.

Tell them to bugger off Back to Scotland then bye bye

Stats show that 21 people were recorded as dying with or of Covid in England. Patients were aged between 72 and 96 years old

Actually died today (well they're yesterday's numbers) or just reported today
0 Wales and 0 Scotland today.

Ok, stars in the wrong place but you get the gist

Haha 'the English'...can always rely on a jokes thread on MN on the weekend evening but this ones early on the booze at 3pm. Hope you're OK OP

To be honest, I'll happily never cross the border into scotland and equally happy if 'those Scots' kept themself North

I know Scots who are absolutely appalled at the way England (specifically the cabinet in Westminster) have handled this and don't want the English crossing the border at the moment

According to many Scottish MNetters the Scots are always appalled at England and never want the English crossing the border. They sound petty and boring.

I've seen some reports about crowds on portabello.beach and also the main park having entrances shut off my police in Glasgow. Terrible rubbish left and crowds. So it's wrong that things are much better. The rates have been high in central Scotland too possibly as obesity and drug and drink rates are high.

As someone living in one if the towns listed in the 20 most likely to enter local lockdown soon — I absolutely would not blame Scotland, Wales, and NI if they chose to close their borders to England.

There’s no social distancing here, no mask wearing, and there was very poor compliance with the lockdown here during the very worst of it.

I absolutely would not blame Scotland, Wales, and NI if they chose to close their borders to England.

How can NI 'close their borders to England'?

In fact, how can Scotland or Wales? These aren't 'borders' with checkpoints and barriers. However, if they want to spend their own money and resources barring entry to their fellow British citizens, up to them I guess.

@EmMac7

What makes you think compliance with the lockdown was poor in England? As I understand it compliance was much higher than the government anticipated.

Did every single person obey every single rule all the time? Obviously not. In general terms however the majority complied most of the time.

I also wouldn't read too much into the "20 towns most likely to be locked down" alarmist nonsense. The data doesn't support the suggestion of any further local lockdowns at present as far as I am aware.

@Sunshinegirl82

I was referring to compliance in my town, not the entirety of England. It’s obviously not representative given the spike here well into lockdown and after. But if I was Scottish I wouldn’t my hard work undone by visitors from a place like this.

The U.K. as a whole has handled this badly and the deaths in Scotland are much higher than in other European countries. But Nicola is a much better communicator and the way she wants to deal with the crisis from this point on is clearer. She is hoping for elimination of the virus. Whether thatis achievable remains to be seen. But the track and trace system is at least being run by public health and the NHS not a private company.
My worry is not about folk from England and Wales travelling to Scotland - I would hope that anyone would get a warm welcome. My worry is the shambolic management of Boris ( and Cummings) . They give out mixed messages and there is no clear sense of what they are trying to achieve - apart from re- starting the economy. The economy is vital but if cases soar to the point a second lockdown is required that is a disaster.
So if Scotland do manage to keep numbers down ( and it’s a big if) but cases rise again in England ( and I hope they don’t) then I could see why cross border travel would become an issue

Ah! I have just realised, Nicola doesn’t really want to bang on about Indy 2 so her supporters are just keeping it alive and kicking for her, and Nicola is happy to sit in the background and let the reterick continue about how great Scotland is doing, and btw I’m Glaswegian and Scottish but belong to the uk, stop being divisive, one kingdom together, we are in the midst of a pandemic please keep the mines is better than yours crap out of it, and just bloody work together, it’s not hard is it ? Then again always got to keep the party faithful happy I suppose, it’s the only reason Nicola has the support, also I was beginning to soften to Nicola but she is showing her true colours again 😢🙁

@PaddyF0dder you mention Scotland being on course for total eradication of the virus in the next few weeks. But then what- total closure of the borders until a vaccination is found? I just don’t see how a policy of eradication can work while the virus is in circulation globally.

@Chocolatedeficitdisorder well other scottish people confirm that scotland has rule breakers too and im sure uoh cant speak for all if scotland only what you see in your area
Masks only recently became compulsory and scotland did things only a little behind england and some things just before
Regarding bot being worried about anyone from scotland bringing it to england you totally miss the point as in anyone travelling from scotland to england and back could also bring it back ? Also didnt a scottish area also have to have a slighlty stricter lockdown
But you cant compare the two counties and i honestly think posts like this are to cause divide and you have had several scottish people confirm issues but you have ignored them

@paddy but you have scottish people who work in england daily how to you plan to quarantine them , also people flying abroad soon
Also still having daily cases so not eradicated yet whilst new cases are being reported on a daily basis , its great they are down
Also re pubs we have to leave name and numbers in england as well and lots of pubs by me limited time, i live in an area in england with lower cases
I heard scottish accents yesterday in my local seaside town and after all anyone could have it but i didnt feel horrified as everyone was behaving sensibly , unfortunately always a few idiots in places and the papers are very good at showing the worst , rarely showing pictures if those behaving sensibly

@Artesia

Ideally:

• each country closes borders
• eradicates (it effectively eradicates) within their borders
• upon eradication, each border only opens borders to other eradicated countries

I understand that would happen in the ideal world, but in reality it’s not happening in other countries, so it’s not a realistic plan. Scotland can’t cut itself off forever, and you can’t force other countries to comply.

*Ideally:

• each country closes borders
• eradicates (it effectively eradicates) within their borders
• upon eradication, each border only opens borders to other eradicated countries*

So no trade then?

You can't eradicate a virus this way. We still see cases of the plague and that was originally around 100s of years ago!

@JimMaxwellantheshippingforcast

You mean that England that's contributing to your costs with regards to covid.

There's an outbreak in Melbourne at the moment, I don't see the rest of Australia saying "we're having nothing to do with you"

Isn't Melbourne in lockdown? Sort of the same thing, isn't it?

Hi Nicola