Face coverings mandatory in public

[AnxiousAlpaca]

So it would look likely that the government are about to announce the mandatory wearing of masks in all enclosed public spaces. Apart from schools however, where Covid will know not to infect you

They are mandatory in all buildings here in Portugal - no mask, no entry. No drama, no wingeing, bins for used masks and gloves everywhere.

I have seen plans for September from several schools now, and they all state that masks worn whilst traveling to school should be removed upon arrival, and hands washed straight away.
Why would the government ban masks in schools?

Masks really scare me, bit like clowns. Really hope I don’t have to wear one for the odd trip I make out.

Sorry to hear that @irisnotadaff . Presumably you wouldn't have to wear one on mental health grounds.

I really hope I see more people wearing them tbh.

Redolent what I see there is bullying and sadly we'll see more public shaming as has gone on since this whole thing started. I can totally see why people were put in stocks or women dunked in water in past times.

Can you see why there were 500 million deaths from Spanish Flu a century ago?

Praying they arent made compulsory. Can't stand wearing one, feel like I cant breathe, I wear glasses which steam up and I can't see and end up in a panic, so I would stop going to shops, cafes etc; call me a drama queen, but that's how I feel, they give me a strange feeling, almost like shame or embarrassment, I'm struggling to articulate what I mean.

I also work in a school so god knows what I'd do if we were told we had to wear masks, I genuinely think I would rather leave my job of 9 years than have to wear one.

I don't understand why they would need to be made compulsory now, surely it would have made sense at the start, not now cases and deaths are so low without masks.

I don’t especially relish wearing a mask, and don’t have a strong feeling about them being used unless you’re unable to socially distance for an extended period, but I don’t why some people (without medical conditions) have such a strong aversion to them that they won’t be going to shops any more - it’s a bit of fabric over your face ffs (not a full on tightly fitting mask unless you really want one!). Why the fuss?

I also don’t want Brits to become known as the unhygienic fusspots who take exception at doing something almost every other country just gets on with.

apparently @SpinningWheelOfFortune the neoprene ones cling a bit more so your glasses don't steam up.

@SpinningWheelOfFortune

Praying they arent made compulsory. Can't stand wearing one, feel like I cant breathe, I wear glasses which steam up and I can't see and end up in a panic, so I would stop going to shops, cafes etc; call me a drama queen, but that's how I feel, they give me a strange feeling, almost like shame or embarrassment, I'm struggling to articulate what I mean.

I also work in a school so god knows what I'd do if we were told we had to wear masks, I genuinely think I would rather leave my job of 9 years than have to wear one.

I don't understand why they would need to be made compulsory now, surely it would have made sense at the start, not now cases and deaths are so low without masks.

On your last paragraph, cases and deaths are so low because of the lockdown. Large chunks of our economic and social activity grinded to a halt. Now that we’re starting everything back up, they can help keep cases low.

They are mandatory in all buildings here in Portugal - no mask, no entry. No drama, no wingeing, bins for used masks and gloves everywhere.

Yet in the U.K., it seems half the population has a serious medical or psychological condition preventing them from wearing even a cotton face covering

yep genuinely can't understand the fuss.

France
French bus driver dies following attack by passengers who refused to wear masks

Philippe Monguillot, 59, died in hospital on Friday after doctors previously declared him brain dead.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/10/philippe-monguillot-french-bus-driver-dies-following-attack-passengers-refused-wear-masks

Horrifying story. I feel sorry for anyone who attempts to enforce face mask use now.

They can’t force you to wear one.(At present) It scares me that we live in a society where we just happily accept the idiots telling us this could be mandatory. The virus has become so Politicised with hidden agendas by Western democracies it is scary.
I will never wear one ever. I have a brain and I understand science and medicine and it is totally unnecessary.

I will never wear one ever. I have a brain and I understand science and medicine and it is totally unnecessary.

Luckily it probably only be a little mask not full body armour. 🙄

@user1471510720

They can’t force you to wear one.(At present) It scares me that we live in a society where we just happily accept the idiots telling us this could be mandatory. The virus has become so Politicised with hidden agendas by Western democracies it is scary. I will never wear one ever. I have a brain and I understand science and medicine and it is totally unnecessary.

So you know more that the WHO then? I want them to be allowed in schools. I work in a college with older students and adults. We should be wearing face coverings in classrooms where we’re together for a long period of time in a small poorly ventilated space. That way we protect each other as best we can while moving towards some kind of normality.

@mathanxiety

We've got this far with social distancing and hand hygiene. I can abide with that.

The UK is up there with the US so far as the two least successful states where dealing with covid is concerned.

If over 60,000 deaths from covid19 is ok with you @BogRollBOGOF, fill your boots.

541,589 deaths occured in the UK in 2018. People die. Every single one of us. We can hit 50,000 excess winter deaths from normal illnesses such as flu. Flu and Covid 19 have a significant overlap in those who are most vulnerable. The average age of death from Covid 19 is 80. That is not a "premature" death and is close to average life expectancy anyway.

It's not actually that far off a regular "bad" flu year, yet we don't overturn society to try to contain flu. That's even with vulnerable demographics being eligible for flu vaccinations.

Of course death is tragic on a personal level, especially if it happens suddenly and is not reasonably anticipated. I've been there. I've also experienced several breavements where my loved ones reached a natural conclusion to their lives.
But at a societal level we're not way off normal ranges of deaths.

The whole thing is a game of trade-offs. Trading off death from Covid 19 vs other common illnesses. Trading off Covid 19 vs general healthcare. Trading off health and the economy. Trading off policy and what the public accept.

@BogRollBOGOF

Sorry, but health and the economy aren’t a trade off. They’re closely intertwined. Protect the former and the latter will prosper. Suppress the virus and consumer confidence will soar.

What's the point in being in a classroom when half the communication is wiped out by covering faces.

Young people need real face to face society back. They've already suffered disproportionately despite facing the least risks of transmission and illness. They need clear communication to learn effectively. This is why so many have already struggled with remote learning.

If I was still teaching in secondaries, I'd much rather have a mask-free classroom than battling against distorted communication and the multitide of new opportunities that masks present for low level disruption.

It's not actually that far off a regular "bad" flu year

So the numbers are comparable to a bad flu year.

But what haven't we ever done in a bad flu year?

Lockdown.

The stats being comparable to a bad flu year while under lockdown actually refute your argument completely, rather than back it up...

The stats being comparable to a bad flu year while under lockdown actually refute your argument completely, rather than back it up...

Yep this is the issue with lockdown working people then say, see not necessary

[quote Redolent]@BogRollBOGOF

Sorry, but health and the economy aren’t a trade off. They’re closely intertwined. Protect the former and the latter will prosper. Suppress the virus and consumer confidence will soar.[/quote]
I agree that they are intertwined but the economy is struggling because of the lockdown measures that have shut down or restricted huge swathes of the economy. Some of which were unnecessary or unecessarily prolonged. Far more shut down than the govermnent intended.

Business confidence is low because confidence in consumption patterns is low. Planned investments are being suspended, and cuts accelerated.

This all bodes badly for general health. Tax to the NHS, loss of incomes and their effect on lifestyle/ poverty rates.

It is still a game of trade-offs.

The virus could have been wiped out ìf every single person was constantly in their home for one month. Obviously the social costs of that would have been intolerable. No medical access. No policing. No external access to food. It would wipe out the virus, but at far, far too great a cost to society. So it is all a trade off of action, effect and consequence.

hat is not a "premature" death and is close to average life expectancy anyway.

no you're wrong. If an 80 yr old is healthy and active it IS premature. 80 is young these days.

It's not actually that far off a regular "bad" flu year, yet we don't overturn society to try to contain flu.

You get that these numbers are AFTER a major lock down, don't you. These not far off amount of deaths. 🙄

@MarshaBradyo

The stats being comparable to a bad flu year while under lockdown actually refute your argument completely, rather than back it up...

Yep this is the issue with lockdown working people then say, see not necessary

I haven't argued against lockdown in this discussion.

With what we knew in March from witnessing events in Wuhan, Italy and Spain and Europe locking down, it was effective in reducing transmission. I think it could have eased sooner into May when virus rates were already substantially reduced.

But the point is, we went for a lockdown and social distancing. We now have viral rates in the community of around 1:2000 people. At this stage, a mask is not practical in reducing the virus tranmission if you are one of the 1:1999 people who don't have the virus to spread.
Social distancing is working. The masks make little difference.

It's not actually that far off a regular "bad" flu year, yet we don't overturn society to try to contain flu. That's even with vulnerable demographics being eligible for flu vaccinations.

You kind of did argue against lockdown @BogRollBOGOF

And compared to a lockdown, masks are a small thing. Already practiced in many countries.

Schools are not having masks. As many have mentioned on here.

or women dunked in water in past times Yes cos women are all the same

There has been a lot of sexism and misogyny that has been part of this lockdown and the easing of it. Oh and if you are going to bring up history, its a good idea to read up on it so you know what you are actually talking about.

HelenaDove Mon 01-Apr-19 18:32:16
Ive just finished reading Witchfinders A Seventeenth Century English Tragedy.

The "witches" tried and hanged were not all women. Some were men.

One accused was an eight year old boy.

What most of them had in common was that they were poor. Yes poor. A lot of them were widows who needed what was known then as parish money to live. Elizabeth Clarke was an 84 year old one legged widow who was hanged. Many more were elderly. Neighbour turned against neighbour. Many resented their rates and parish money going to help these "wretches"

See any parallels? Because i do.

At the end of the book (although he does allude to it throughout) the author mentions how lack of liberty and welfare and political and economic uncertainty leads to this kind of climate.

We wouldnt get people persecuted for practising witchcraft now (although this still goes on in parts of the developing world) but we still get people persecuted for being poor/disabled etc.
Matthew Hopkins John Stearne and Sir Harbottle Grimston etc are long dead But some of their ideals are still very much alive.

There are parallels and its chilling.