Just because you are allowed to doesn't mean it's safe to

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

Talking to a friend last night who has booked a week abroad for herself and family.

I admired her courage and said I hoped they had a lovely time and to make sure they had enough masks. She said she won't need that apart from on the plane because the government wouldn't allow travel if it wasn't safe.

I didn't rain on her parade but I do wonder how many people feel the same way. If you're allowed to it must mean it's safe.

Supermarkets are lightening up on social distancing and one way systems and people assume it's now safe.

It isn't the virus is still with us and we need to take sensible precautions not send ourselves back into lockdown.

Anxiety is a real bitch.
Calm harm app can be useful because of the various coping strategies that can be used across various parts of our lives. There might be others veered more towards anxiety, this one is aimed at teen self harmers.

Many of the methods are used for a lot of those things we struggle with mentally and impact our daily lives.

I know it's hard. Try not to be hard on yourself. even if you didn't reach that goal today. Tomorrow is another day. You cannot rush yourself to meet the expectations of others. Only you can do this for you. But of course some motivation or something to look forward to. helps. Set yourself small tasks and how you can achieve those things?

Think about what is stopping you from going into the garden. What do you want to do when you get there? Somedays you will be merrily skipping down the road wondering what you was worried about. The next day sitting at home worrying about the what ifs. We all have this and it's "normal". The hard part is finding that strength from within to take back control. You know this already deep inside, it's natural. Nothing to feel guilt or shame for. You know when you take back control you and your body (anxieties etc) will co-exist in your ideal of "harmony" and hopefully there won't be a next time.

Sincerest good luck to anyone going through anxiety. It's shit.

I was due to go to Tenerife this week but cancelled. I thought I would have a look on Tripadvisor at the forum to see if there were any comments. There is someone there at the moment giving daily updates and it sounds grim. Nothing open, masks, and all the things that do not make a great holiday. I’m surprised many people are bothering.

Personally I have no interest in visiting the pub or getting my eyebrows done or going on holiday. But if others do, it’s not my place to judge.

Something being legal is not the best way to judge whether or not it’s a good idea. It is legal to put your 135cm tall child in a car with no booster seat, and legal to put a 3 year old on a backless booster, and legal to put a young toddler into a forward facing car seat. But none of these are actually safe. It’s always worth doing your own research, especially with this bunch of self-serving muppets in government!

sometimes when folk say things you need to add some words at the start or end.

If someone says "it's safe" then add " in my opinion it's safe enough ". Then it's just their opinion & you can agree to disagree.

The thing I find fascinating about general risk assessment in life is how people get hung up on certain things. Covid 19 being the obvious one at present. A totally different example is any thread on the theme of children camping in a garden. You can guarentee that within 5 posts, a particular crime will be mentioned and its like a script. One very specific crime from 25 years ago despite the millions of nights that children have spent safely in tents since then. One horrific occurence utterly distorts a sense of risk assessment. Or babies/ toddlers in the car at the petrol station...

Most people will be doing their own risk assessment. I've sat inside a near empty cafe this week. I'd be selective about my choice of pub. Quiet local fine. In town at a pub with a reputation for people getting lairy, I wouldn't go there Covid or not.

I'm not fussed about international travel this year. Primarily because the type of holiday experience on offer does not really appeal to me. We are unlikely to travel to MiL this year, mainly because it's not worth a tiny risk of accidentally increasing her exposure to the virus as she is rather elderly and frail. If she was 20 years younger, that would be a different assessment.

Few people will be taking up every opportunity on offer. People will resume their usual activities.

Risk extends beyond Covid 19. I've never restricted my life for any other virus except cancelling a playdate for known cases of chicken pox for example, but not as a general measure.

Stay home, safe safe has been touted around. That strategy has killed people. People who did not seek urgent healthcare. A young sports instructor with a DVT from gaming for long periods. Anomalous and horrific for his family. But nothing is risk free, so we weigh up the cost-benefit analysis. Smoking was a good example. Legal. Millions get away with it, but for me the benefits don't outweigh the known and potential costs.

Looking at the stats today it is more risky to be obese or drive than you are at risk from covid.

Why do people think driving is safer than flying? Far more dangerous!

The word "safe" should be banned.
Completely agree! It is utterly ridiculous the way people are using it now-. Someone posted the other day about going to university and wee advised to insist that on the Uni telling them what they were doing to 'keep them safe' ughhhh! I do judge people who talking about 'keeping safe'

@UmbrellaHat

Why do people think driving is safer than flying? Far more dangerous!

I don't think driving is safer than flying, but I think the chance of catching covid in your own car is lower than in an airport.

Ah thanks to everyone who replied to me ☺️ Lovely kind comments and really nice to read! Hope everyone else is ok xx

There was that case in Singapore where someone had contracted covid by sitting in the same seat as someone else who was contagious earlier in the day
could you explain scientifically how anyone would know this?

@Dollywilde

Sorry, I’m in the ‘nothing is safe’ category. The government lets us drive cars and smoke cigarettes. The best plan is people using their brains to make their own risk assessments and I’m sorry to say some people will make assessments and come to different conclusions to you, that’s life.

I agree with this

Of course everything carries risk but lots of people do what they can to reduce the risk, for example driving at the speed limit, not smoking, not eating and drinking to excess, being cautious and careful when crossing the road etc. These are all deemed ‘sensible’ yet when someone suggests being sensible to reduce the risk of catching covid they are mocked and made to feel daft. I work in a relatively high risk job where social distancing is impossible, as does DH. Therefore we reduce our risk by limiting the places we go and how we behave. Just because we are at risk at work doesn’t mean ’oh well’ and not to worry as it only takes one contact to catch it. It’s about limiting the number of contacts and chances of catching it surely?

We had a bbq last weekend with lovely friends. We are completely at the other end of the risk spectrum re Covid as you could get, i’m surprised they came for a BBQ. They both smoke, both quite over weight but never see this as a risk but coronvirus, we should still be staying at home and not leaving the house unless absolutely necessary. The difference is they don’t have children, so don’t have to see or mix with anyone. I don’t have that option, not that I would want to anyway. Each to their own. I respect they don’t feel safe, which is fine.

SebandAlice I disagree about lockdowns in countries giving foreigners time to leave. When Italy locked down no time allowance was given; the country went into lockdown at 23.00. During the night flights or trains had to booked, they were selling out rapidly. I got out just as the land borders were closed to all foreigners without a current health certificate.

I understood the OP's point. It's not about saying people shouldn't do these things, it's just saying that they shouldn't do them thinking that they're safe or low risk, just because they're allowed. They should do them with their eyes open, understanding that something being allowed is not the same thing as it having a certain lowness of risk.

The government has (for all of our sakes, for the sake of the economy and everything else) to keep us walking a tightrope where we're as economically active as possible without the number of covid cases going up too high. When they allow a particular thing like a certain number of people meeting, or hairdressers opening, or flights abroad, all they're doing is making a judgement that the resulting number of extra new covid cases will be manageable from a public health point of view.

They're absolutely not saying that there won't be any extra new covid cases at all, which is what people saying "the government wouldn't allow it if it wasn't safe" seem to think they're saying. Getting a haircut is still riskier than meeting someone at a park, they're not now both equally low risk just because they're both allowed. So it's up to us to decide if the risk of being one of those "manageable levels of extra new covid cases from hairdressers", or from whatever, is one we personally want to take, or not (either is fine).

I think individually we need to decide what’s right fir us and our circumstances. I am doing things as they open, with precautions, we went on a theme park weekend break last weekend and we are on another one this weekend, we ve been to the pub, DH and DS have been to the barbers. I m not putting my life or my children’s childhood on hold any longer. But if others want to carry on at home then that’s fine too i don’t judge anyone. The only thing that puts me off going abroad is if it all flares up again and it gets cancelled and I have to wait ages for my money back. We are looking at some European theme park breaks later in the year but think we will book just before.

While there are people coming to the UK from all over the world, you are never going to stop the spread, until there is a vaccine, whether you want to stay locked away to stay safe for the unforeseeable future is down to the individual. Most people who are low risk are not willing to do this and who can blame them. Trying to guilt people into putting their lives on hold at the earliest 18 months in case they might infect someone is not a reasonable request.

I don't get the whole 'there's a risk you can die from a car crash too'. Yes, you could get into an accident and the paramedics could be at the scene and you die. But the difference is, you can't pass on 'dying from a car crash'. No one else will be affected (unless it's a pile-up or others in the car, then the buck stops there). The paramedic treating you won't -catch- a serious head injury from you. If you get Covid and later die (or not) you could pass it on to lots of people in the meantime. Likewise, you could get cancer in life, life isn't safe. But you can't pass it on to strangers and loved ones before you're symptomatic.

"stay home, stay safe" means don't help the virus move around.

It's not rocket science

I can see from reading MN that a lot on here are now Covid 19 fatigued. They're sick off lockdown and sick of life being more controlled.

I get that. I'm in Melbourne and just started second 6 week lockdown.

But if it means not helping the virus move around then that's what we have to do.

The problem for the UK is that horse has bolted. It's out there now for you guys and you are going to have to live with it.

And people banging on about herd immunity, early studies aren't looking good for that so I wouldn't be thinking that's the answer either.

But how on earth are you going to stop it spreading when people are moving around all over the world? India has 1.2 billion people, 800 million very poor. You can’t lock them down or they will starve to death. With the best will in the world test and trace is not possible with such s large population. While the airports and ports are open it will spread.

I don't get the whole 'there's a risk you can die from a car crash too'. Yes, you could get into an accident and the paramedics could be at the scene and you die. But the difference is, you can't pass on 'dying from a car crash'. No one else will be affected (unless it's a pile-up or others in the car, then the buck stops there). The paramedic treating you won't -catch- a serious head injury from you. If you get Covid and later die (or not) you could pass it on to lots of people in the meantime. Likewise, you could get cancer in life, life isn't safe. But you can't pass it on to strangers and loved ones before you're symptomatic.

@folicfrolic

But as a pp explained, it’s not reasonable to expect people to stay indoors for months on end, potentially years (losing their jobs, possibly their homes and the like...) for the sake of other people who are high risk!

Nothing is stopping the vulnerable stay home. The rest of society shouldn’t have to. As already mentioned, if the economy crashes and heads in to a depression there will be no money to put in to the NHS so it’ll go to pot anyway.

Also, as Alex points out- unless you close the borders and quarantine EVERYONE entering the UK, it will always be here with us. We have to live our lives with it!

How do you know next year will be a better time to travel than right now though?

Cases are low across most holiday destinations in Europe. I wouldn’t stay in a hotel maybe but a private villa?

Agree you can’t just put your lives on hold and the economy and many industries are really suffering. We will most likely see an increase in infections at some point, probably autumn. We may well be in exactly the same situation this time next year.

How do you know next year will be a better time to travel than right now though?

Yep. I'm actually assuming next year, after we've crashed out of the EU without a deal and with outbreaks of coronavirus still occuring, that things are still going to be extremely difficult and further from "normal" than ever. So I've every sympathy with anyone grabbing a holiday now, while they can, despite some risk. It's the lull before the storm. When the furlough money comes to an end, the redundancies will begin....and, with Brexit, will keep on coming. House prices are already starting to fall...