Just because you are allowed to doesn't mean it's safe to

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

Talking to a friend last night who has booked a week abroad for herself and family.

I admired her courage and said I hoped they had a lovely time and to make sure they had enough masks. She said she won't need that apart from on the plane because the government wouldn't allow travel if it wasn't safe.

I didn't rain on her parade but I do wonder how many people feel the same way. If you're allowed to it must mean it's safe.

Supermarkets are lightening up on social distancing and one way systems and people assume it's now safe.

It isn't the virus is still with us and we need to take sensible precautions not send ourselves back into lockdown.

I know what you mean OP. Like all those people who crammed into pubs the night before they closed thinking it was ok because they were allowed to.

But they weren't allowed to cram in. They were allowed to visit a pub and drink whilst abiding by social distancing rules. It isn't the governments fault that people lack the common sense to social distance.

You can only take responsibility for yourself and your family. That is very hard on the people who are high risk but there is nothing I can do about that.
So as long they aren't one of your relatives they can just feck off and die then?

@foamrolling

Perhaps what she means is she's not worried about the risks to her? I'm not particularly worried about the risks to me and my immediate family from coronavirus. I've been following guidelines out of a feeling of social responsibility, to play my part in preventing the spread. If the government have decided people can go to the pub and travel abroad then I feel I've been relieved of that responsibility to a certain extent.

Very well put and that's exactly how I feel.

Oops, I was laughing @CarlaH but it's moved on. Sorry.

There was that case in Singapore where someone had contracted covid by sitting in the same seat as someone else who was contagious earlier in the day.

Across the world there have been relatively few documented cases of surface transmission.

The case in Singapore occurred in a church where a woman appeared to have caught COVID after sitting in the same seat as the infected individuals. However she stated showing symptoms 14 days after the presumed date of infection. While 14 day incubation periods are not unheard of, they are relatively rare so we cannot completely disregard another alternative - the woman might have been infected by another church goer after her initial visit to the church.

Here is the full description of events:

www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736%2820%2930528-6

The second potential case of surface transmission is a cluster in a Chinese mall but again, the evidence is not entirely conclusive.

I am not quarantining or constantly washing my clothes based on these two examples. Yes, there are risks but I personally view them as extremely low.

I think the world is divided into two sections just now, those who see risks everywhere and are fearful and would rather stay home as much as they can and those who don't see as much risk and will go on holiday, go to the pub etc

I think it feels like this on here but irl more in the middle. I’m in the middle; very pleased y10 has had school time and back full time in September. Pleased in person music lessons started for ds y5, and keen for him to start school. Dd nursery two says Sept.

Do runs, a few shops but yet to do pub or holiday.

They had people on the radio talking about this the other day-someone out in tenerife, they are constantly being told to wash hands use sanitizer, the police are walking around making sure people are wearing masks. They are in their hotel and were told to try not to leave it. It sounded like a horror movie to me, hopefully your friend has a different experience. In Ireland we've been told not to travel but on the same day Ryanair opened up their flights and lowered prices. Our r value started going up in the last few days after easing of lockdown, I cant even guess where we're going to go after this

I think if Dominic Cummings has taught us anything. It’s so what YOU and YOUR family feel comfortable with. Make your own risk assessment and take it from there.
What’s right for your family isn’t another.
So trust that .... —not the government—

I think it feels like this on here but irl more in the middle. I’m in the middle

I think this too, we only go the places that are necessary, wash hands etc but happy to get out, social distance etc. Cant understand people not waiting a little bit more for holidays

A small handful of pubs had issues, the vast majority didn't. Most people are still following guidance, it really isn't a case of either staying at home going nowhere or hugging everyone in the pub.

@stayathomer my son is in Tenerife at the moment, he is having a lovely time, looking at the photos he’s sent, it doesn’t look like a horror movie, more like paradise

@BlueBrian but what do you expect people to do, when they have freedom of choice now, still sit at home? We should all stick to the guidelines but we also need to carry on.

My local cafes are open...for the first time since March I’m going out for brunch!

@YogaLite

It's ok, let's rescue the economy and if some bodies fall along the way there are plenty more to take their place, survival of the fittest, let nature deal with it.

Big savings on pensions & disability benefits so win-win really.

There will be no money for an NHS let alone benefits and pensions if we all remain at home indefinitely. Thatll cause more deaths in itself!

I think if Dominic Cummings has taught us anything. It’s so what YOU and YOUR family feel comfortable with. Make your own risk assessment and take it from there.
What’s right for your family isn’t another.
So trust that .... —not the government—
Yeah awesome, lets not bother having any laws we'll just leave up to individuals to decide what's safe, so if you fancy driving your family down the motorway at 90 mph, that's OK as long as you feel safe.

The government's overarching concern is to preserve existing power structures so that it can retain its own power, the government does not care about the safety of individual people, it needs to restart the economy as soon as it can

It’s not because the government allow pubs to open that has changed their mind. They simply couldn’t do anything about it until the pubs were open

I think there's some truth to this, but I think it's also true that people's perception of risk is shaped by government signals among other things. Government does have some responsibility to set the right tone. People will also take into account numbers of infections and deaths & effectiveness of track & trace.
So some people will be happy with the government's word it's safe to get on with their lives and that will be predominantly those who only stayed home because they had no choice. And some people will only be happy to go out again when they see evidence the spread is under control.
The problem is that the risk-takers choices could lead to a resurgence, trapping the risk-averse and vulnerable in self-isolation for much longer than if everyone continues to take precautions. And although we have a right to take risks for ourselves, we don't have a right to take risks for other people. Only the government can decide for everyone how much risk to take. If there is a second wave as a result of the lifting of restrictions, it's therefore the government's responsibility, not that of the individuals who followed their advice.

I had a conversation with DS 21 about this yesterday. He was upset at photographs clearly showing more than 2 households and more than 6 people mixing in the same garden, when he's been trying to follow the guidelines and his life is on hold to a degree.
I feel we all need to make our own decisions around risk as life must return to some degree of normality. I'm a retired but just returned NHS nurse, still trying to stick to the once weekly shopping trip and as little non-essential travel as possible. I definitely wouldn't book a foreign holiday. On the other hand, my FIL has a terminal cancer diagnosis and has weeks to live. There is no way family groups will not be mixing in his home, though I will be trying to maintain distance as much as possible.
I hope enough people will stick to the rules enough of the time to mitigate against those who abuse them (I'm not including those who are following the rules even if I personally think the rule is wrong).

It’s a balancing act isn’t it and tbh we need the more gung-ho amongst us alongside the super cautious and everything in between to see what does and doesn’t work.

FWIW I won’t be getting on a plane or going abroad this year but my concerns are more about being stranded in a sudden regional lockdown over catching Covid although that’s still at the back of my mind.

We’re going to be living with this for a while and I fully expect there to be heavily reported outbreaks and the drive to keep up the momentum that covid is still about and what precautions are necessary to keep a semblance of normality about the world. We don’t need to keep infections to zero but we also need to avoid being overwhelmed.

@BlueBrian

*I think if Dominic Cummings has taught us anything. It’s so what YOU and YOUR family feel comfortable with. Make your own risk assessment and take it from there. What’s right for your family isn’t another. So trust that .... —not the government—* Yeah awesome, lets not bother having any laws we'll just leave up to individuals to decide what's safe, so if you fancy driving your family down the motorway at 90 mph, that's OK as long as you feel safe.

@BlueBrian I am not quite sure how you have drawn that conclusion given I am talking about the thread, Covid and the 'just because things are open doesn't mean you have to use them' question.

@YogaLite

It's ok, let's rescue the economy and if some bodies fall along the way there are plenty more to take their place, survival of the fittest, let nature deal with it.

Big savings on pensions & disability benefits so win-win really.

Yeah, its not as if the health service, pensions and disability benefits (plus many more public services) require a functioning economy or anything is it!

@crosseyedMary

The government's overarching concern is to preserve existing power structures so that it can retain its own power, the government does not care about the safety of individual people, it needs to restart the economy as soon as it can

You say that like the economy provides no benefit for the average person and only the government reaps any benefit.

I’m definitely on the spectrum of leaning towards caution regarding covid but I don’t think our particular society would survive a complete destruction of the western economy.

Yes, who needs an economy, we only had one for a laugh!

@Dollywilde

Sorry, I’m in the ‘nothing is safe’ category. The government lets us drive cars and smoke cigarettes. The best plan is people using their brains to make their own risk assessments and I’m sorry to say some people will make assessments and come to different conclusions to you, that’s life.

And plenty drive drunk or like maniacs and smoke 50 cigarettes a day.

You're right but relying on people to be sensible is a losing game.