Just because you are allowed to doesn't mean it's safe to

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

Talking to a friend last night who has booked a week abroad for herself and family.

I admired her courage and said I hoped they had a lovely time and to make sure they had enough masks. She said she won't need that apart from on the plane because the government wouldn't allow travel if it wasn't safe.

I didn't rain on her parade but I do wonder how many people feel the same way. If you're allowed to it must mean it's safe.

Supermarkets are lightening up on social distancing and one way systems and people assume it's now safe.

It isn't the virus is still with us and we need to take sensible precautions not send ourselves back into lockdown.

@FizzFan

If we are supposed to wash hands and face when we go home, dispose/wash the mask after every use. Isolate the dirty from the clean when out and about then what about your clothes?

The reason for washing hands and not touching your face is because that is a route for spreading the virus. It doesn’t mean it’s going to jump up and attack you from a pair of jeans. Don’t rub your face on your clothes and you’ll be fine.

I don't wash my face when I get home either. I must be covered in virus.

Tell me one thing you do on a daily basis that is 100% safe?

I've booked 3 holidays to happen with the next 6 weeks. If they say we can, then I am.

They have put people through absolute hell since march. All the depression, job loss and businesses falling through the floor. Our kids have been cut off and missed out on massive parts of their lives. Such as completing the final year of primary school. Completing exams. Finishing secondary schools. Completing courses. Reception aged children have missed a huge chunk of their first year of school which sets them up for the rest of school.

All of which would have happened even without lockdown. Schools and hospital wards were closing earlier in March before lockdown due to staff shortages (covid and self isolating etc). Infections were growing exponentially. At least with the lockdown, Covid has been brought under control. Without a lockdown, we'd have had all the downsides but none of the benefits (i.e. control) .

So you are basing your risk assessment on a single case

1 person in over 7 billion doesn't really make it a risk that means I can't go on holiday.

I will wash/sanitise my hands frequently, I will keep as much distance as practical and I will avoid touching my face. After my flight I will probably not wear my travelling clothes again for a few days at least (maybe not until my homeward journey) BUT I am more than happy to go.

Is/was this a thing:

change clothes and isolate them before washing them on a higher temp?

Isolate and then wash! Surely just wash and wash hands after if you feel the need. Oh well each to own as they say.

@Melonslicexx ‘s post above sums up the number the government have done on us all. I don’t know your health situation, but there are perfectly healthy, smart, together people been reduced to anxious shambling shadows of their former selves due to the government terrifying the shite out of everyone to get them to comply with lockdown. It’s a real shame.

Of course we can’t be reckless and gung-ho but seriously in Scotland there were 1500 people with the virus last week and numbers are dropping. Case numbers are tiny. Given a lot of them will be in hospital or care homes and others with symptoms staying home the risk of anyone having it in the community must be absolutely minute. The risk of them passing it on with the measures we have in place must be even smaller.

The government had to scare people into compliance by making them think the virus was worse than it actually is for the vast majority of people and now have done to good a job people are too scared to get back to even a vague semblance of normal. What a shitshow.

@MulierLite

Lot of people on this thread have misunderstood your point OP. "We're allowed to" should be the start of the inquiry, not the end! I don't trust this government an inch.

Thank you for seeing what I meant.

@FizzFan

Totally agree - it's amazing - some of the ridiculous things I have read that people are doing... totally batshit.

"perfectly healthy, smart, together people been reduced to anxious shambling shadows of their former selves due to the government terrifying the shite out of everyone to get them to comply with lockdown. It’s a real shame."

Well planes crash all the time. Using her reasoning no I’ve would be allowed to do anything ever. It’s not the government’s job to keep you safe, you’re supposed to do your own risk assessment. That said some people have lost their minds over CV and the only way to reason with them is to say it’s not against guidelines/whatever.

My son and his girlfriend have gone to Tenerife for 2 weeks, there are no cases there at the moment, the plane was half empty, the resort and the island is very quiet. They are in there 20’s very fit and healthy, the risk is very low to them. You can’t expect young people to put their lives on hold forever.

Is this thread about the relative risks of catching & spreading covid-19 or is about the unfathomability of anyone still actually believing and trusting in our totally shambolic, lying, incompetent sorry excuse for a government?
Because if it's the latter, then, yeah, I don't know why anyone would take their word for something being safe, either. Boris "I shook hands with people in hospital" Johnson is pretty much the last person anyone should be looking to for advice and guidance about what is and isn't safe.
I don't necessarily think going on holiday is an unacceptable risk, though, as long as people understand those risks and keep being careful about social distancing etc.

There's no difference. Risk is risk. The government allows people to do all kinds of things which carry a risk. You could just as easily say 'The government allows us to drive cars, climb mountains, drink alcohol etc, so it must be safe'.

Of course there's a difference. That's my whole point. People risk assess in any other area but many seem to have a blind spot with Covid. The assumption being that they can so it must be safe.

I don't understand why so many people are missing the point.

The clothes just highlight the risk we take every single day.

Viruses live on clothing just like they live on surfaces, the exterior of the masks etc.

When we walk into our homes we take everything in with us. Droplets remain in the air/clothing for some time. So yea if someone walks past you and sneezes/coughs that virus will cling to your body, hair, clothes etc if they haven't covered mouth/nose.

This is also why you don't see nurses etc going home in their uniforms. They've washed their hands countless times, but their clothing not so much. It's to help stop transference.

Why do you think they wear the plastic things over their uniforms for bed changes etc? It's because when something is shaked it releases those droplets.

Realistically there may never be a vaccine for this. It's not the first strain of corona we have had living alongside us. Chances are there will be more to come. They still haven't found cures/vaccines for those and how many years has it been? And remember it's not just one country trying to do this, it's the world.

Many people have blindly followed the government and still do so. Who knows maybe denial is the reason.

Nothing you can do about it. They aren't breaking any laws.

Plus how dull would it be if we all did the same thing as everyone else?

It could have also been a simple case of any answer because they don't need to justify their reasons to other people. 🤷‍♀️

@DomDoesWotHeWants

Should we never go out, never do anything? What’s the fun in living then?

But that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that people risk assess most of the time but some have a blind spot with Covid because "the government say it's safe".

I will be furious if their stupidity leads to a second wave and another lockdown. Some people are just stupid, I suppose.

You’re saying that general every day risk, is different to covid risk.... and that people aren’t weighing up the risks of covid....

But they are.

They have decided that the risk to them is minimal. The opening of the pubs etc... facilities them to be able to not socially distance.

It’s not because the government allow pubs to open that has changed their mind. They simply couldn’t do anything about it until the pubs were open.

The calculus risk is that they don’t mind if they catch it!

Their calculated risk I mean

@canigooutyet

The clothes just highlight the risk we take every single day.

Viruses live on clothing just like they live on surfaces, the exterior of the masks etc.

When we walk into our homes we take everything in with us. Droplets remain in the air/clothing for some time. So yea if someone walks past you and sneezes/coughs that virus will cling to your body, hair, clothes etc if they haven't covered mouth/nose.

This is also why you don't see nurses etc going home in their uniforms. They've washed their hands countless times, but their clothing not so much. It's to help stop transference.

Why do you think they wear the plastic things over their uniforms for bed changes etc? It's because when something is shaked it releases those droplets.

Realistically there may never be a vaccine for this. It's not the first strain of corona we have had living alongside us. Chances are there will be more to come. They still haven't found cures/vaccines for those and how many years has it been? And remember it's not just one country trying to do this, it's the world.

Many people have blindly followed the government and still do so. Who knows maybe denial is the reason.

Nothing you can do about it. They aren't breaking any laws.

Plus how dull would it be if we all did the same thing as everyone else?

Under that logic you should go straight in showed and wash your hair too. I wash and sanitize my hands regularly, keep out of peoples way and will wear a mask in places I am required to. I refuse to spend my life worrying there is virus particle on my top.

I think at the moment it’s down to assessing risk on individual decisions and taking action based on that. Personally, I’m not a fan of package type holidays and would definitely not feel all the hassle and stress of flying was worth it, but I know I am in the minority there. I was first in the queue for my hair appointment. I am well aware COVID is still in the community but went ahead in as safe a manner as possible. Each to their own!

I know what you mean OP. Like all those people who crammed into pubs the night before they closed thinking it was ok because they were allowed to.

@MrsWolf2

I know what you mean OP. Like all those people who crammed into pubs the night before they closed thinking it was ok because they were allowed to.

Thanks for understanding. :)

The thing is now everything is opening up, you can’t expect people not to carry on with their lives if they are low risk. You can only take responsibility for yourself and your family. That is very hard on the people who are high risk but there is nothing I can do about that.

@canigooutyet

The clothes just highlight the risk we take every single day.

Viruses live on clothing just like they live on surfaces, the exterior of the masks etc.

When we walk into our homes we take everything in with us. Droplets remain in the air/clothing for some time. So yea if someone walks past you and sneezes/coughs that virus will cling to your body, hair, clothes etc if they haven't covered mouth/nose.

This is also why you don't see nurses etc going home in their uniforms. They've washed their hands countless times, but their clothing not so much. It's to help stop transference.

Why do you think they wear the plastic things over their uniforms for bed changes etc? It's because when something is shaked it releases those droplets.

Realistically there may never be a vaccine for this. It's not the first strain of corona we have had living alongside us. Chances are there will be more to come. They still haven't found cures/vaccines for those and how many years has it been? And remember it's not just one country trying to do this, it's the world.

Many people have blindly followed the government and still do so. Who knows maybe denial is the reason.

Nothing you can do about it. They aren't breaking any laws.

Plus how dull would it be if we all did the same thing as everyone else?

People don't properly read most posts that's why.

I think the world is divided into two sections just now, those who see risks everywhere and are fearful and would rather stay home as much as they can and those who don't see as much risk and will go on holiday, go to the pub etc

Each are fine in their own way, it's when each group feels obliged to behave like the opposite group there's trouble.

@DomDoesWotHeWants

There's no difference. Risk is risk. The government allows people to do all kinds of things which carry a risk. You could just as easily say 'The government allows us to drive cars, climb mountains, drink alcohol etc, so it must be safe'.

Of course there's a difference. That's my whole point. People risk assess in any other area but many seem to have a blind spot with Covid. The assumption being that they can so it must be safe.

I don't understand why so many people are missing the point.

Oops my mistake. Pressed the wrong quote.

This is the post I meant to quote when saying that a lot of people just don't read the posts properly.

I agree with you that the risk is still there and if we want to manage some of our "normal" activities then we have to do them in a modified way. I haven't been taking my children up to the shops etc like I usually would. We don't tend to go to the pub/restaurants/gym anyway but we do always look forward to a holiday.

We were supposed to be staying at a big French campsite but cancelled it because it seemed more risky to be doing a long ferry crossing, sharing site facilities with many others and having our DC mixing with lots of other children. But we're still going to France. We're doing the shortest crossing and hope to stay on deck the whole time. Mask wearing is mandatory. Then we are staying in a cottage and just plan to do as much outside stuff as possible - go to the beach for a bit, it's not an incredibly touristy area so shouldn't be too crowded. We've been there before at the height of the summer season and there was plenty of space. Go for walks etc. We self-cater and don't normally eat out.

I wouldn't go on a plane. Coincidentally or not I went down with the worst virus I've ever suffered three days after a plane journey and spent the rest of the holiday in bed so I now associate them with getting ill!

The biggest risks seem to come from prolonged indoor contact. I'm a primary school teacher and have been spending most days in close contact with my bubble of littles so that seems of more risk than staying in a cottage with just my family. We aren't going away until 2 weeks after I finish school to allow for any possible incubation time.

I'm not sure about other activities that are opening up, like swimming. I'd really like DD to continue with her swimming lessons which are at a very quiet time in the evening but I'm not sure about the indoor pool environment yet.