Just because you are allowed to doesn't mean it's safe to

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

Talking to a friend last night who has booked a week abroad for herself and family.

I admired her courage and said I hoped they had a lovely time and to make sure they had enough masks. She said she won't need that apart from on the plane because the government wouldn't allow travel if it wasn't safe.

I didn't rain on her parade but I do wonder how many people feel the same way. If you're allowed to it must mean it's safe.

Supermarkets are lightening up on social distancing and one way systems and people assume it's now safe.

It isn't the virus is still with us and we need to take sensible precautions not send ourselves back into lockdown.

It's ok, let's rescue the economy and if some bodies fall along the way there are plenty more to take their place, survival of the fittest, let nature deal with it.

Big savings on pensions & disability benefits so win-win really.

But in some ways op it IS the same as the whole crossing the road scenario. Anyone can get killed crossing the road at the wrong time. Or seriously hurt. But we still look both ways and do it anyway and hope it won’t happen. And it most probably won’t. It’s exactly the same with Covid. Most people who get it won’t even know they have it, some people will be mildly unwell and a very small minority will die. Should we never go out, never do anything? What’s the fun in living then?

Social distancing there has always been people that ignored it, and the fact that businesses are starting to re-open hasn't changed this.

People still had to go out and work and lets face it, a lot of those roles involved close contact. Look at the police force, are they popping on a mask before they make an arrest? From what I've seen no.

People make their own risk assessments based on a number of things and just because they are using these things doesn't mean they aren't all doing it sensibly which is to wash your hands properly and use anti-bac as a last resort until you can wash your hands.

Even during "lockdown" we were still able to travel, it's just been a case of does that country want us?

I live in Ireland, our Government has a mandatory 2 week self isolation for all people coming into our countrt. there will be a green list of countries that will be classed as safe to travel without self isolation, that will not be published till 20th July. We are slowley coming out of lockdwon here, pubs that do not serve food are not allowed open yet . Hotels are open but on a limited capcity. I will still be very cautiouse on doing anything at all. And most certainly will not be getting onto a plane this year. My work (which i used to have to travel a bit ) have banned all work travel for 2020 and if you decide to go on holidays abroad at your own risk you will not be paid for them and you have to self isolate for 2 weeks after you come back and will not be allwoed work and will not be paid for this either. I know 5 peopl who got Covid ( 2 died) and to me its not worth it. Stay at home or do a staycation. Enjoy what we have.

I'm sick of hearing this to be honest.

I am not scared of coronavirus. I respect social distancing because I realise that other people might be at risk, but on a personal level I am not scared. So I am going to do the things that I am allowed to do. If you berate people for doing things sensibly within the guidelines then you're a twat.

Should we never go out, never do anything? What’s the fun in living then?

But that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that people risk assess most of the time but some have a blind spot with Covid because "the government say it's safe".

I will be furious if their stupidity leads to a second wave and another lockdown. Some people are just stupid, I suppose.

i know what you mean she does sound naive saying government says its ok so i'll go-i dont believe a word they say anymore and will make my own risk assesment

im going to a pub for a meal sunday but sitting outdoors i feel its a good compromise-

where is she going btw-some countries have still got a mandatory rule about wearing masks even on the beach

For me it just comes down to risks that are worth taking and those that are not... and I understand this will be different for each person.

One of my Facebook friends was excitedly posting yesterday about being relieved she can go get her brows waxed again. There's no way I would ever consider that to be worth the risk of having someone so close to my face when this virus is around.

It's not at all the same as the "everything is risky" argument - we need to cross the road and use electricity in our homes even though it's risky, but there's no need to get your eyebrows waxed or to fly to go on a holiday this year.

I have never quarantined my clothes, my post or wiped down my shopping. I think those are ridiculous overreactions and not things I will consider wasting my time on.

I've generally social distanced when out where possible and am willing to wear a mask where required.

DH and I are considering whether to book a week together in Spain (or even the Greek Islands) in October, probably at the last minute when we can see how things are going. Not that we are big socialists and want to go to mass gatherings. We don't, we would just like a bit of a break because 2020 has turned into the year from hell on so many levels. I've been made redundant, my elderly and shielding parents have had some serious crises through lockdown (not Covid 19 related) and things have just turned to utter shit.

Nothing is without risk. Drive to the supermarket and you are taking a risk. Walk down the road and you could have a fall or be hit by a car.

At some point we do just have to get on with things again, sensibly.

Socialites, not socialists!

Maybe they do t think its completely safe, but a acceptable risk for them? Like a risk assessment? Different people have different attitudes to risk.

Indo think it's now hard immunity by stealth so its " do I not want to eat out for the next four years?" Verses "I'm going to catch it in the next four years anyway" thinking for some.

We have to learn to live with this long term. The vaccine was going to ready in six months but most scientists doubted that. Even if it is ready come Aug ( doubtful)its got to be mass produced and rolled out for to 67 million brits.

It's not going to happen

Lot of people on this thread have misunderstood your point OP. "We're allowed to" should be the start of the inquiry, not the end! I don't trust this government an inch.

Second wave is due around October I feel
That counts for nothing more than your gut instinct, though
NHS has told staff they can’t book annual leave in October so they obviously have an expectation of a second wave hitting at around that time.

Basically people think if the government say it’s ok to go out then it’s ok. They don’t consider that the government might have ulterior motives such as prioritising the economy above people’s individual safety.

[quote canigooutyet]@Jrobhatch29

When you think about it not really.

If we are supposed to wash hands and face when we go home, dispose/wash the mask after every use. Isolate the dirty from the clean when out and about then what about your clothes?

Germs and viruses can survive on clothing after all and unless I've missed an update which I may have, it hasn't been determined how long this lasts on clothing.[/quote]
But I can only see the point in isolating your clothes if you spend your day on a covid ward or if for some reason you are rubbing up against things. If the virus has blown in the breeze onto your clothes it has probs gone up your nose too so it's pointless. Surely I am not the only one not stripping to my underwear at the front door

But in some ways op it IS the same as the whole crossing the road scenario. Anyone can get killed crossing the road at the wrong time. Or seriously hurt. But we still look both ways and do it anyway and hope it won’t happen. And it most probably won’t.

Plenty of ways to mitigate and reduce your risks. I.e. walk a little further to find a safer place, i.e. better visibility, pedestrian crossing, footbridge, etc. Concentrate on road rather than looking at your phone or being engrossed in conversation with a friend. Stand back from the edge of the road whilst walking/waiting, etc etc. Wait till traffic stops at traffic lights before you start to cross even if you've got the green light.

It’s only a risk if someone actually has it and spreads it to you. People parrot about “risk” but what I think they fail to understand is that if 1 in several thousand people and falling have the virus the chances of them being on the plane and spreading it to you are small and even if they do the measures we have in place should help. Nothing is risk free but the virus isn’t going away. We obviously can’t go back as we were before with no measures in place but if people stick to hygiene measures, masks and SD it will all help.

I wouldn’t be going abroad this year but it doesn’t mean that people who do are taking ridiculous risks. Lockdown has gone on long enough and damaged society and the economy enough. Time to reopen with safety measures in place, if you don’t want to, stay home and let other people get on with their lives. It doesn’t make you a better person than them, even if you think it does.

There has to be a balance. I’m hoping my children can get back to normal as soon as possible as they need to for their well-being. I’m not as bothered about going out to the pub etc so for me, I’m prioritising activities for the children and family. I’d love to book a break in October half term but I’m not convinced it’s not going to be shit or at risk of being cancelled so I’d only book something v last minute.

But I can only see the point in isolating your clothes if you spend your day on a covid ward or if for some reason you are rubbing up against things. If the virus has blown in the breeze onto your clothes it has probs gone up your nose too so it's pointless. Surely I am not the only one not stripping to my underwear at the front door

If you really have only walked around then fair enough. But if you've sat down somewhere, i.e. on public transport, in a waiting room, at work, etc - basically anywhere someone else may have sat down before you, then, under Covid, I'd certainly be stripping off when I got home and putting them in the washing machine.

There was that case in Singapore where someone had contracted covid by sitting in the same seat as someone else who was contagious earlier in the day.

When you sit down, you're also likely to be touching things, like chair arms, hand rails, tables/desks etc., which are very unlikely to have been sanitised just before you sat down. When you have something on your hands, it's easy to get passed to your clothes, pockets, etc.

If we are supposed to wash hands and face when we go home, dispose/wash the mask after every use. Isolate the dirty from the clean when out and about then what about your clothes?

The reason for washing hands and not touching your face is because that is a route for spreading the virus. It doesn’t mean it’s going to jump up and attack you from a pair of jeans. Don’t rub your face on your clothes and you’ll be fine.

I'm not sure why people have veered away from the original subject. It isn't about general risk in daily life, looking both ways when crossing the road etc. It's about the specific risk posed by Covid and people's response to it.

There's no difference. Risk is risk. The government allows people to do all kinds of things which carry a risk. You could just as easily say 'The government allows us to drive cars, climb mountains, drink alcohol etc, so it must be safe'.

The government could make all kinds of potentially dangerous things illegal, but they have to weigh up the risk and the pros and cons. People can then make their own decisions about whether they trust the government's decisions.

But if you don't think people should trust the government's advice about what's safe, then I'm not sure what you think they should base their decisions on. Their own scientific knowledge gleaned from Wikipedia perhaps? Other people's opinions on social media? Or just their gut feeling?

There was that case in Singapore where someone had contracted covid by sitting in the same seat as someone else who was contagious earlier in the day.

Yes but not by just “sitting on the seat”. It doesn’t spread that way. By touching their face with unwashed hands after touching their clothes, or the seat, maybe, but it just doesn’t bloody jump into your body off a seat or a pair of trousers.

@DomDoesWotHeWants

Should we never go out, never do anything? What’s the fun in living then?

But that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that people risk assess most of the time but some have a blind spot with Covid because "the government say it's safe".

I will be furious if their stupidity leads to a second wave and another lockdown. Some people are just stupid, I suppose.

No I'm not doing because the government says it's safe. I'm doing it because I have risk assessed and decided that it is as safe as it ever was.

I don't need the government to nanny me. I can read reports and make sense of them. I can read the headlines - and then go on to read the article and see that the headlines bear no relation to what is happening.

EG Headline 'Cases have Doubled' - Real story there was 1 person per 100,000 and now there are 2. Headlines are scary clickbait. The real story is rarely almost never as bad.

There are people out there doing research and making sense of things that I haven't time for who I trust. AND I know I am not alone.

I think you'd be hard pushed to find one person in the country that fully trusts the government (I doubt even Boris does). We are doing it because, having made our own risk assessment, we were just waiting for our glorious government to realise that they can drip feed us the freedom to start living again.

The government have moved from stopping the spread to getting the country up and running. I think they think we should all catch it now. The few that die are the price that has to be paid for the country not to completely fall on its knees.

They have put people through absolute hell since march. All the depression, job loss and businesses falling through the floor. Our kids have been cut off and missed out on massive parts of their lives. Such as completing the final year of primary school. Completing exams. Finishing secondary schools. Completing courses. Reception aged children have missed a huge chunk of their first year of school which sets them up for the rest of school.

Old people and vunerbale people have been alone for weeks. Struggled to get shopping. Struggled to find ways to keep busy.

Mums like myself are struggling and stuck. We've had the stuffing knocked out of us. For weeks we've tried to be teachers, workers, cleaners and cooks. Aswel as take care of ourselves. We've had to worry about our children. Our elderly parents. Our own health.

Cancer and many other serious illnesses have had to be put on hold. Therefore people are getting sicker. New mums are giving birth without the warmth and support they should be getting because the midwives can't go to see them as much and masks will be covering everyone's faces.

People only need to look at how we are supposed to live. The new normal. The list of rules about my local hairdressers reopening is enough to decide it's not worth getting my son's hair cut.

I don't want to go out anywhere because I'm anxious and I can't remember how to function. I also know that this virus is going to peak again. People are relieved they can have a little something. But really in my opinion the only things people should be doing are outdoor activities. Going into pubs and stuff is Burying your head in the sand is stupid. Ofcourse people need to go out. But do they not realise how unsafe it is???

There's no sign of a vaccine. I can't believe anyone would want to leave the UK until they know what's happened here and elsewear in the world. We don't want cases coming here from elsewhere. Why can't people just make the best of the UK until it's actually safe to do other things.

The risk and main concern for me with travel is not fear of catching the virus but the risk of ending up in a quarantine or lockdown situation in a foreign country. I just think back to those stuck in the hotel in Tenerife a few months back and think no thanks.

That's the main reason we won't be going abroad this year. We've been stuck abroad a couple of times due to plane faults, so only for 1 or 2 days. But, it's pretty miserable. True, the airline puts you into a hotel, but usually low quality, usually very basic amenities, basic food, etc. Once when it happened to us in Egypt, we were put up in a Hilton hotel, which we thought was going to be good, but the sods had taken out the tea/coffee making facilities, no freebies (i.e. not even shower gel, just a single bar of soap), just one towel each, mini bars emptied, etc etc. At meal times, we had to eat in a separate function room with a very limited buffet - we weren't allowed into their normal dining room, not even for breakfast.

It's like those stuck on cruise ships who had to endure days of being locked in their cabins, with basic meals being left outside their doors, no choice of food etc., just random food items plonked on a plate - take it or leave it.

theres no proof he got it just from sitting down though is there-could have been in someones company who had it and didnt know