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Covid

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To think people need to be released from the idea that they must 'stay safe'?

434 replies

TheDailyCarbuncle · 01/07/2020 13:55

IMO people's heads have been messed with on an absolutely massive scale during this pandemic. So many people seem to be locked into the idea that they absolutely must avoid getting covid at all costs, no matter what, to the extent that they're convinced that if they don't do everything possible to 'stay safe' then they're definitely going to die.

I genuinely think that the extent to which governments around the world have convinced people that the only thing that matters is this virus is a far far far bigger problem than the virus itself. I think governments are too cowardly to say what needs to be said, which is that there is no way to prevent everyone from getting it, and that attempting to prevent it is causing so many other problems that it just can't be done any more.

I think people are being driven around the twist with the idea that this threat is out there, lurking at all times, waiting to get them. It's like a form of mental torture, with people questioning everything and worrying about everything, while the economy crumbles around them.

There is no guarantee of a vaccine or of more effective treatments. There is every chance that covid will still be circulating, along with every other virus, in 2030. You could do everything absolutely 'right' now and still get it next year or in five years.

I get the fact that it was new, unprecedented, etc. But where do we draw the line? When will the acceptance come? When it's too late and there's no way to restore the millions of jobs lost? When economies have collapsed so much that poverty, violence and starvation make covid look like a walk in the park?

OP posts:
Orangeblossom78 · 01/07/2020 17:50

You see to me that is a high chance you will be OK. I guess it depends how you look at it. Also it is not as simple as that as more about underlying health as well.

I'd be focusing on exercise, staying healthy, risks and benefits for example I'd go swimming indoors as benefits to health higher than my risk from the virus for example.

MarshaBradyo · 01/07/2020 17:54

Gales yes agree

Redolent · 01/07/2020 18:00

You have no idea what you’re talking about unfortunately. Do you think China halted its own economy for months just for jokes?

Covid has a high hospitalization rate, and if you ‘let it rip’ it’ll quickly take over the health system. Women can’t give birth safely, heart attack victims turned away, children not getting cancer treatment. That’s the reality of an overwhelmed healthy service and it’s something no modern civilised society can’t stomach.

But the NHS wasn’t overwhelmed you say? Only because it became the Covid Health Service and we cancelled virtually everything else. It now has a 10 million long waiting list and it’ll take four years to catch up. It can’t afford another shut down.

Why don’t you see how they’re getting along in the US? Now that the ICU beds in many states are 99% full they’re crapping themselves and they’re locking down again.

TheGreatWave · 01/07/2020 18:07

So, I'm staying in, thank you very much.

Good job then that there are people going out to work everyday to enable that to happen.

MinesaPinot · 01/07/2020 18:28

Totally agree OP

BumbleWumble · 01/07/2020 18:36

@Porcupineinwaiting

A little statistic to drop in here: 1 in 20 people (adults) who contract COVID are still significantly unwell after 3 months. It is not known whether these people will recover a)shortly b) eventually c) never. I think those are not great odds to gamble with. How many other things are people doing that give them a 1 in 20 chance of becoming chronically unwell ?
Exactly. The death rate is bad enough, but this added risk, which was obviously not known about initially, is also horribly scary.

If the virus eventually goes through much of the population, not only will there be hundreds of thousands of deaths, there will be many more people left chronically unwell for at least an extended period of time if not more.

It doesn't really bear thinking about, and is obviously not an easily dismissible risk, but this is the reality of this terrible new virus that just seems to keep on pulling new tricks out of its hat.

chancechancechance · 01/07/2020 18:36

@Orangeblossom78

You see to me that is a high chance you will be OK. I guess it depends how you look at it. Also it is not as simple as that as more about underlying health as well.

I'd be focusing on exercise, staying healthy, risks and benefits for example I'd go swimming indoors as benefits to health higher than my risk from the virus for example.

1 in 20 possibly chronically ill is very high. It would be ok if your chance of catching it were low, but if we all were behaving normally you would soon have a very high risk of getting it.

The countries who saw SARS/mers and the lung damage react quite differently to the countries who treat it like flu.

IAintentDead · 01/07/2020 18:45

@Porcupineinwaiting

A little statistic to drop in here: 1 in 20 people (adults) who contract COVID are still significantly unwell after 3 months. It is not known whether these people will recover a)shortly b) eventually c) never. I think those are not great odds to gamble with. How many other things are people doing that give them a 1 in 20 chance of becoming chronically unwell ?
Errr that is

1 Everyone who eats more than the number of calories they need to maintain a healthy weight.

2 Everyone who drinks more that 14/21 units of alcohol per week

3 Anyone who smokes.

3 things that lots and lots of people do that are well known to increase risk of ill health and dying earlier.

Also travelling in a motor vehicle; For most otherwise healthy youngish people there is more risk from dying from or receiving life changing injuries from an RTA than Covid

Suicide - there are far more people (particularly men under 45) who will die from suicide at least partially due to the effects of lockdown and its effects on the economy.

TabbyMumz · 01/07/2020 18:53

People who say life is full of risks etc, have usually not had anything serious happen to them. As you get older and have more things happen to you, you take less risk. If anyone in my family gets covid, they will likely die.

HairyToity · 01/07/2020 19:05

My husband has type 1 diabetes and we are very cautious. I don't want him to have it, as I worry he could be very ill. We have met friends and family outdoors, and make our own risk assessment.

We might be being OTT but I just want to keep my family safe. I'd love to not care about this virus.

AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii · 01/07/2020 19:16

@TheDailyCarbuncle in my rural area of Scotland we have had no new cases for quite a few weeks, since Monday we have had a small number of new cases

IrenetheQuaint · 01/07/2020 19:22

Interesting to hear people from other European countries saying the British are unusually fearful. Tbh, our government's inability to get a grip on the situation hasn't helped matters.

I do think there should be more publicity given to local case numbers (though I know the government hasn't made this easy due to the crap reporting process). I just looked up the new Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 cases for London, where I live, and they are absolutely tiny, less than 5 per 100,000 population in my borough over the last week.

TheGreatWave · 01/07/2020 19:27

People who say life is full of risks etc, have usually not had anything serious happen to them

Quite a sweeping generalisation there. Actually the fact that I have seen people have life changing injuries from pretty innocuous events is what makes me realise that life is full of risks.

QueenBlueberries · 01/07/2020 19:28

I am generally not impressed with that 'I'm alright Jack' mentality. I know that statistically, I am likely to be OK if I get Covid 19 because of my age and general health. But what worries me the most is not catching it; it's passing it on to others.

What is guiding me to be cautious, to wear a mask in shops and on public transport, to be very anxious about pubs opening up, is not because I am scared of catching it myself.

I am worried about other people, those who have been shielding, the elderly, the most vulnerable in our society, catching it and dying from it.

The higher the number of cases in the overall population, the higher the death rate. We have not managed as a society to protect the most vulnerable of our society. That's a fact.

So I am one of those you probably call stupid for being worried. But I am not worried about myself, I am worried about others. Is it really that hard to understand?

TabbyMumz · 01/07/2020 19:45

"have seen people have life changing injuries from pretty innocuous events is what makes me realise that life is full of risks."
Seeing it happen to other people is a whole different ball game to having it happen to you.

TiddleTaddleTat · 01/07/2020 20:09

Agree with @Porcupineinwaiting
I'm one of those with ongoing symptoms, after 4 months now.
Most of us with ongoing symptoms had a mild illness, many appear to have been particularly fit and healthy with good diets etc, no underlying conditions etc.
It's a very foolish and blasé attitude to think that Pre-existing good health will protect you from this virus or stop you from having a life threatening or limiting disease.

cologne4711 · 01/07/2020 20:11

I am generally not impressed with that 'I'm alright Jack' mentality. I know that statistically, I am likely to be OK if I get Covid 19 because of my age and general health. But what worries me the most is not catching it; it's passing it on to others

Very altruistic of you. I think most people care about themselves and those close to them, even though they pretend otherwise.

Whoknowswhocares · 01/07/2020 20:13

@Porcupineinwaiting

A little statistic to drop in here: 1 in 20 people (adults) who contract COVID are still significantly unwell after 3 months. It is not known whether these people will recover a)shortly b) eventually c) never. I think those are not great odds to gamble with. How many other things are people doing that give them a 1 in 20 chance of becoming chronically unwell ?
But it’s not really 1 in 20 surely? That’s based on figures from confirmed cases. All reports indicate unreported cases could be ten times as much. Nobody knows but Whitty and Co have estimated it as such. So that’s 1 in 200. Not exactly palatable of course, but significantly different
TiddleTaddleTat · 01/07/2020 20:22

We don't know yet the incidence of long term symptoms but there are a huge number of people reporting them. Anecdotally of those I know (also young and healthy like myself) who contracted it at the same time, all three of us have symptoms of varying severity.
It's not a virus to gamble with. I don't see the issue in living your life and taking necessary precautions but it is worth putting out there that catching it mildly does not mean that you have necessarily got off lightly.

Userzzz · 01/07/2020 20:25

I agree with you. The whole situation is fucked ...

DarkHelmet · 01/07/2020 20:25

Totally agree, OP

Babs709 · 01/07/2020 20:40

@QueenBlueberries
I am worried about other people, those who have been shielding, the elderly, the most vulnerable in our society, catching it and dying from it.

Having a conversation here, not heated at all (hard to convey online)...

I think I struggle with the “protecting the vulnerable” at such an enormous cost. My husband has lost his job, we may loose our family home. That’s not me being dramatic either, he’s been unemployed since the 1st April and is struggling to find any work (MW stuff too). We’ve been shopping each week for our neighbours in their 90s and so far have not come within metres of them. We are doing everything we can to protect them and they are safe because they have found a way to minimise all contact (and eradicate all close contact) with others. I love them dearly and I’d hate for something to happen to them (or rephrase: not looking forward to the day when something does inevitably happen to them). However I am finding it increasingly difficult to deal with the price that we are paying to keep them safe. They should be shielding themselves from others with or without a lockdown that has cost my husband his job. I’m not entirely sure what the % of people who are classed as “clinically vulnerable is” but I would assume we could be moving forward without destroying livelihoods whilst also keeping them safe.

I think maybe that is why I personally find your stance hard to understand. Does that make any sense at all?

Orangeblossom78 · 01/07/2020 20:42

The OP is about the feeling of staying / being 'safe' though which is different from taking care for the sake of others

it is possible to be careful without feeling unsafe or personally in danger.

AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii · 01/07/2020 20:56

@Babs709 that was very well put and I have to agree with you, we’re now heading in to month 4?? When do we say enough is enough? When half the population have lost their jobs, homes etc? Everyday I’m hearing more job losses especially in airlines etc

Pikachubaby · 01/07/2020 21:15

@Porcupineinwaiting that is exactly the kind of false risk analysis that perpetuates the fear

The stats you give do NOT show that you (or anyone) has a 1in 20 chance of getting a chronic decision

You have to multiply that 5% with the chance of getting the virus, AND becoming sick with it

Which means it is a much much lower probability than 1 in 20