To think people need to be released from the idea that they must 'stay safe'?

[TheDailyCarbuncle]

IMO people's heads have been messed with on an absolutely massive scale during this pandemic. So many people seem to be locked into the idea that they absolutely must avoid getting covid at all costs, no matter what, to the extent that they're convinced that if they don't do everything possible to 'stay safe' then they're definitely going to die.

I genuinely think that the extent to which governments around the world have convinced people that the only thing that matters is this virus is a far far far bigger problem than the virus itself. I think governments are too cowardly to say what needs to be said, which is that there is no way to prevent everyone from getting it, and that attempting to prevent it is causing so many other problems that it just can't be done any more.

I think people are being driven around the twist with the idea that this threat is out there, lurking at all times, waiting to get them. It's like a form of mental torture, with people questioning everything and worrying about everything, while the economy crumbles around them.

There is no guarantee of a vaccine or of more effective treatments. There is every chance that covid will still be circulating, along with every other virus, in 2030. You could do everything absolutely 'right' now and still get it next year or in five years.

I get the fact that it was new, unprecedented, etc. But where do we draw the line? When will the acceptance come? When it's too late and there's no way to restore the millions of jobs lost? When economies have collapsed so much that poverty, violence and starvation make covid look like a walk in the park?

I either see ‘everyone is laughing at us’ re beach scenes now ‘they think we are all terrified’

It’s all stirring bollocks imo. A good dose British self hatred.

I've never been sent a food box, told to stay in, that I'm at severe risk of complications and asked if I want to be resuscitated before. That's why I'm a little nervous
I wouldn't say scared but I'm WFH, shielding and don't go out unless it's in my car or to the GP/chemist/hospital/garden
Although I do also worry a little about sepsis as that's a complication that is common with my condition

I don't know anyone who is "cowering in fear". Even people I know s who are shielding are just continuing to get on with their lives, just doing it from home instead of outside the home. Even people who are more cautious than others, are only asking for similar safety precautions to most other countries (test and trace is significantly better in the majority of Europe than it is here). Very few people are cowering in fear!!!

It's likely that if there's a vaccine it'll only be offered to vulnerable people

Jolly good. They can count me out of that. I've got enough problems without adding guinea pig to the list

On the statistics, as long as you teach exponential growth at the same time because whilst you may be very low risk it helps to know what happens next as it’s passed on.

That's really shit for you and I can see why you're angry, but my take on it is that it shouldn't be the case that you have had no contact with anyone since March, because even though you have done that, you're still stuck in and cases are still ongoing. The question to be asking IMO is what's the point? If you can lock down for three months and destroy the economy and that still doesn't work, where does the line get drawn? Does it just go on and on and on until everyone sees no point in living any more?

The point is that everyone didn't lockdown though did they? Why are you trying to pretend that everyone stayed indoors for three months but the virus prevailed therefore proving lockdown didn't work? Lockdown didn't work because too many people didn't follow it and it was released too early when the number of cases was too high.

Well, if you're fortunate enough to live in Scotland where Sturgeon has the policy to eradicate the virus there, you would feel generally more comfortable

How can Scotland 'eradicate' the virus when it has open borders with the rest of the UK, and for the time being at least, with the EU? Does Sturgeon plan to lock up Scotland for the foreseeable?

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

It's likely that if there's a vaccine it'll only be offered to vulnerable people

Jolly good. They can count me out of that. I've got enough problems without adding guinea pig to the list

Well it will be jolly good for you anyway because others will take the jab and you'll be protected anyway by them.

@Theluggage15

My brother and his family live in Holland and he works in Germany. He says people in both countries are bewildered by the fear in some of the UK people they know. It’s not because they didn’t have as many deaths in Netherlands or Germany but neither government tried to frighten people to death and most people in those countries understand who the virus can be bad for, which is mainly the very elderly, and they are just getting on with their lives, rather than cowering in fear and hanging onto every bit of bad news.

I find it embarrassing that UK people are seemingly quite dim and unable to assess risk compared to other countries.

Don't want to out myself, but I'm from a non-UK country originally and I do find Brits quite anxious. British media is terrible too - shallow, sensationalist, clickbaity & weirdly obsessed with vox pop bollocks. The last of those gives me the rage TBH. I really don't give a shit what some mum-of-five from Doncaster who is "worried" schools reopening or whatever has to say. Give that air time to someone with actual expertise & let them discuss the statistical / scientific pros & cons.

BBC has been terrible for that recently - it never used to be like that ^^

I whole heartedly agree with the OP.
The government have misled people, in fact, the very best outcome we could have is that most people will catch covid with no or very mild symptoms.
My friend is one of those totally cowering with fear and scared to go back to work next monday .
Think of another virus for example measles ( I know it is not as serious) , that is still in circulation after goodness knows how many years and there is even a vaccine for it

Don't want to out myself, but I'm from a non-UK country originally and I do find Brits quite anxious.

I thought you were all laughing at our high death count and masses on the beaches?

I think a lot of this stuff about what Brits are like from afar is unfounded. Especially if it’s only being garnered from the media you watch.

Having lived here half my life, and in another country the other.

@DisobedientHamster

Oh, yeah, malaria, everyone's magically treated and cured. That's why millions of people die from it every year .

Hope you don't drive a car and live in a car free area. Those kills hundreds of thousands of people every year. Should be avoided. Not safe.

Well of course, but the point is people try. If I was in a country with malaria, and could afford a net, I would use it. I wouldn't try not to worry about malaria.

The fact that poverty prevents treatment/measures is a different issue.

I don’t see that the focus of the response (at least in England) has been to eradicate it but to minimise the strain felt by the NHS so that they can cope (not just with Covid but with all the other healthcare requirements of a country).
They did not (and probably still don’t) know exactly how deadly the disease is because they don’t know who has been infected or whether immunity is granted once you’ve had it. But it is reasonable to assume at the start of a novel virus that the entire population is susceptible and they have only just started to recognise who is vulnerable (there is still some question around whether blood type and other things are a factor). More information is required which takes time.

I think lockdown was a sensible way to go at the beginning and a slow release to control it is also very sensible and that it is unreasonable to let go and allow the spread to exceed what health providers can manage, putting all other health treatments on hold.
I agree testing etc should be much better and gov has let themselves down in that respect but largely I think the rules have worked and yes it has impacted everyone and their lives but so would every other response.
The idea that the young should never have been asked to change their lives because they are low risk is unreasonable (that’s not how society works and would not protect the economy).

Easy to say when you aren't the one taking the risk, and it's not your business whether I choose to stay safe of not, quite frankly. I know the risk of catching it seems small, but the risk of becoming severely ill as a result is quite large for some of us. The problem is that with so many people ignoring the rules, and with so many people possibly being asymptomatic, I have no idea whether the next person I meet might infect me.

So, I'm staying in, thank you very much.

@Dontforgetyourbrolly

I whole heartedly agree with the OP. The government have misled people, in fact, the very best outcome we could have is that most people will catch covid with no or very mild symptoms. My friend is one of those totally cowering with fear and scared to go back to work next monday . Think of another virus for example measles ( I know it is not as serious) , that is still in circulation after goodness knows how many years and there is even a vaccine for it

140,000 people died from measles worldwide in 2018/2019 so it is quite serious - many of those are children under 5. I almost died from it when I was little - I got it just before I was due to be vaccinated.

Daily Carbuncle , I'm sorry ,I wasn't making light of it. I put that bit in about it not being as serious , almost as a disclaimer, as I thought some people would accuse me of making light of covid.
You make a really good point , that we are still living with dangerous viruses and not hiding from them .

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

That's really shit for you and I can see why you're angry, but my take on it is that it shouldn't be the case that you have had no contact with anyone since March, because even though you have done that, you're still stuck in and cases are still ongoing. The question to be asking IMO is what's the point? If you can lock down for three months and destroy the economy and that still doesn't work, where does the line get drawn? Does it just go on and on and on until everyone sees no point in living any more?

The point is that everyone didn't lockdown though did they? Why are you trying to pretend that everyone stayed indoors for three months but the virus prevailed therefore proving lockdown didn't work? Lockdown didn't work because too many people didn't follow it and it was released too early when the number of cases was too high.

I'm not pretending everyone stayed indoors - many many people went to work, went to supermarkets, went to hospital for treatment for other illnesses (which was one of the main ways to catch covid for a long time), looked after people in care homes (again, one of the main sources of transmission) and went to school. There is no evidence at all that people going to each other's houses caused any real increase in infection and I don't see how someone standing in the open air on a beach with the breeze coming in off the sea could cause any noticeable spike?

The virus is spread when people have prolonged contact with a range of people. The people most likely to fall into that category, unfortunately, are doctors, nurses and carers. No matter how much you lock down you can't change that. Tanking the economy in the hopes that that'll prevent spread, while sending infected people back to carehomes is the ultimate in mad futility.

Somewhere east You put it well. Voxpop has no place on b.b.c.
(nor do other wierd fads, e.g. playing musac constantly, even over talk programmes or to drown out the natural sound on wildlife programmes. Nor the infantile pack-chasing of each latest single bright shiny ' thing of the day' )

Just been to the shop past the huge signs warning cars to "watch out for people stepping out'- into a busy city road

So it seems is is now reasonable for people to step out into busy city roads to avoid passing another person, and it is the cars responsibility to avoid them

Seems like madness to encourage people to behave in such a way

But we need to stay safe don't we never mind about road accidents

I'm not pretending everyone stayed indoors - many many people went to work, went to supermarkets, went to hospital for treatment for other illnesses (which was one of the main ways to catch covid for a long time), looked after people in care homes (again, one of the main sources of transmission) and went to school. There is no evidence at all that people going to each other's houses caused any real increase in infection and I don't see how someone standing in the open air on a beach with the breeze coming in off the sea could cause any noticeable spike?

The virus is spread when people have prolonged contact with a range of people. The people most likely to fall into that category, unfortunately, are doctors, nurses and carers. No matter how much you lock down you can't change that. Tanking the economy in the hopes that that'll prevent spread, while sending infected people back to carehomes is the ultimate in mad futility.

The spike in Leicester doesn't seem to be being blamed on drs, nurses, care assistants, supermarket workers though. So somehow people have been spreading it. Wether that's been through illegal gatherings, workplaces operating and not being Covid safe or people breaking lockdown hopefully will be identified.

@Jaxhog

Easy to say when you aren't the one taking the risk, and it's not your business whether I choose to stay safe of not, quite frankly. I know the risk of catching it seems small, but the risk of becoming severely ill as a result is quite large for some of us. The problem is that with so many people ignoring the rules, and with so many people possibly being asymptomatic, I have no idea whether the next person I meet might infect me.

So, I'm staying in, thank you very much.

I agree. It's very easy for people at low risk to dismiss other people's legitimate concerns.

I'm in the shielding category and am due back at work in August. I'm dependent on everyone around me following the rules to keep me safe. That's a frightening prospect.

There is this narrative on mumsnet that people are either terrified by the virus, happy to live in lockdown forever, 'dementors' or they are suicidal BECAUSE of lockdown, can't live like this a moment longer and are at the edge of a nervous breakdown.

And yet we see people in their thousands, tens of thousands, protesting, raving, going to the beach, carrying on working...

Most people who are prone to being anxiety are, I suppose, anxious about the virus. Most people who rely heavily on friends and family to keep them on an even keel are no doubt finding life tough. But I think the vast majority of people are neither terrified nor unable to cope.

A little statistic to drop in here: 1 in 20 people (adults) who contract COVID are still significantly unwell after 3 months. It is not known whether these people will recover a)shortly b) eventually c) never. I think those are not great odds to gamble with. How many other things are people doing that give them a 1 in 20 chance of becoming chronically unwell ?