When kids go back in September, should schools stay open till 4pm

[Lardlizard]

To allow kids to catch up and allow workers to catch up on work

My kids do extra curriculum activities so unless I'm choosing wraparound care for DH and I to work, no way should they have to stay later. They would miss out on their enrichment stuff.

As a key worker, it's only recently that my children have been doing any of the home learning set when they are in school, despite school saying they would. I understand it is difficult when you've got 4-5 different year groups in one bubble though.

My kids might not like it but we will continue to do their home learning to try and keep some of the gaps in learning at bay and support their teachers when they go back in September.

Pomegranate - be that as it may, and I know lots of parents are struggling, but when it comes to older students particularly - if they have had all their lessons recorded. (Recorded not live often work better for this) with follow up work and teacher feedback (and actually lots of have, not just in private schools) then many won't have fallen behind IF they've engaged with their school work Monday to Friday.

For younger children it's hard as they may find it more difficult to access and engage BUT again recorded lessons from their teachers with accompanying worksheets and/or activities are fairly self explanatory and often don't need a lot of additional parental help, even at infant level once the tech has been set up for them.
I know that some of our children have complete lots of the work, and had feedback on it but equally I know others (including the single numbers who have emailed a complaint to ask why their child can't return to school) haven't appeared to touch any of it

Teachers didn't decide to close schools.
The government did.

Teachers didn't decide to restrict who returned.
The government did - and also provided guidance which made it almost impossible to have many of those back anyway.

Teachers didn't cancel the curriculum.
The government did, and promised a whole raft of online learning materials.

Teachers don't get to decide whether we return ft as normal come September.
The government will - though the leaked drafts appear to be making it almost impossible to implement again.

To the suggestion of an extra period a day for year 11... they already do that has intervention. We have a 'period 6' where each student has a bespoke timetable over a fortnight, every day apart from Friday. I already have 2 post 16 sessions a week after school (a year 12 and a year 13, with 13s able to go to both). What you seem to be wanting already happens because lots of students already need that level of support.

@Aragog what are the leaks for September so far (genuine question)? I’ve not been up to speed with things

No, not at Primary. The day is long enough and already struggles with crowd control issues. Very little effective teaching would get done in the additional time. The teachers will have big behaviour issues to tackle as it is, trying to settle every child settles. Trapping them at school for another 45 minutes would be counter productive, it would simply exhaust and demoralise teachers whilst not achieving much in terms if actual education.

If it was offered I would say no. I'd rather let my child have a play date with someone in her bubble, go and ride her bike, or come home and do homework

The schools will find it difficult IF THEY DO go back in sept let alone making the day longer. I very much doubt this will happen!.

Comifergate - there are a couple of threads about them an on bbc news too.

Secondary:

• bubbles our whole year groups
• narrowing of subjects, inc potential of losing GCSEs to focus in English and maths
• social distancing where possible
• exams to go ahead with possible some tweaks

Primary

• bubbles of whole classes
• no whole year/school activities
• Focus in English and maths
• no SD

All:

• no masks or visors
• all front facing desks
• staff not to spend more than 15 minutes within 1m of a child
• staff at front wherever possible with 2m distance between them and children/other staff
• possible staggered starts and ends, playtimes and lunches

Etc

Not sure if it has been said... I certainly wouldn’t be happy walking my lot beside a busy road in the dark in the autumn or winter. By 3:45 it is almost pitch dark here at times.

I would imagine, if schools have to follow the leaked guidance, some students will be finishing later. If you do staggered start and end times for each 'year group bubble' you're looking at potentially some year groups starting and therefore finishing later than normal. So some people may get there finish at 4pm wish. How this works practically with lesson times and teachers swapping between lessons is anyone's guess.

No extra provision should be provided in September. Any child with a half decent parent will be on track and doing fine. Why should those students have to do extra work and miss out on extra curricular to support the children with rubbish parents

I always love these responses. Parents can teach all subjects despite having no training (and in most cases relevant knowledge), there is no need for teachers (and the expensive buildings called schools and colleges) and parents don't need to work to keep a roof over their heads and buy food so even if they do have the teaching expertise they have the time to teach their kids.

Who knew?

I’d be interested to find out how many hours those teachers who worked “substantially less over lockdown” were actually doing.

When I was teaching (which I only did for a couple of years), I was a newbie so routinely did around 60 hours a week, but of course was only paid for ~32.5. If I was used to working 60 hours and dropped to 32.5 then I’d describe that as “substantially less”, but I’d still be working the hours I was paid for.

Gosh, can you imagine what it would be like if teachers only worked 32.5 hours a week?! 😱

I've been working about the same hours. More flexibly obviously, but that's meant working even later at night.

Normally I get to work at 7.30, leave at 4.45 for pickup. Full on in that time, no down time (that's the only way I can leave as early as 4.45).
Child bedtime is 8, I usually work 2 or 3 hours after that Sun - Thurs
What's that? Let's say 2 and a half hours every evening.

58 and three quarter hours a week. Normally.

At the moment if I'm at home:
At desk at 8.45 after school drop off
Stop working around 6ish (partner does pickup)
Hour of faff at the most during the day, mostly just head down (most faff done while waiting for videos to save or upload)
I reckon I'm working a few hours a few nights a week (usually recording when things around here are quiet), maybe 6.
I don't work Friday after 2 because no child care.
I do work Sunday from bedtime until it's done (around midnight), so 4 hours

What's that? 51 hours. What a fucking slacker huh?!

@Aragog I didn't say that teachers had made those decisions.

However It's perfectly reasonable to be disappointed that my DC's school felt adequate provision was an emailed weekly task sheet - no interactions/emails/marking/phone calls.

I know some schools have done much more, the disparity is a problem.

Genuine question - could TA's have been utilised more? Available for email queries for example?

Normal school week: Between 45 - 52 hours (but I am an older teacher who no longer feels the need to impress)

Lockdown week: 30 - 36 hours (Depending on how many full days I’m in)

So there have been the occasional weeks, where I’m probably working a couple of hours less than I should be (we get paid for 32.5 hours) but other weeks where I work more. That’s just in lockdown. The usual is to work well above and beyond.

And still people want to add a further 20 unpaid hours to my working month.

I can guarantee that whether I was forced to stay on an extra hour or not, I wouldn’t be teaching your kids. I’d stick a word search on the board or give them a poster whilst I marked...there is no way I’d let anyone cut further into my time with my own family.

I am an older teacher who no longer feels the need to impress)

Me too!! Those hours are just getting the job done (I'm SLT, but that doesn't take up much time, it's inclusion that takes up my extra time).

the disparity is a problem

I agree.

As someone mentioned upthread, if I calculated all the "overtime" I've done over the 30+ years I've been teaching, I reckon I could have the next few years off completely at least.

Our TAs have mainly been in school along with teachers, plus have been involved in preparing home learning and in school materials, replying to pupil feedback etc

It really depends on how your school has managed things.

We have been really active both in school and with remote home learning, so all staff have been utilised throughout.

From pp, it's really clear our school have been v poor. So disappointing. We really liked the school before. It's really confirmed that we need to look around other schools as soon as we can.

I didn't answer the thread question - I prefer the school day to stay as it is and for DC to continue with their activities after school. I'm hoping won't take long to catch up, although my teacher friend said some children haven't done any work at all ...

It would only add 5 minutes to the end of my DC's day.

Loads of children haven't done any work at all. Loads. The majority I'd say. My child did nothing- she couldn't, she's 5 and we were both working all day. Other colleagues' kids have done nothing - one of them has a daughter in my class, they didn't even look at the school website. We have a couple of key worker kids whose mum is a lunch time bod at another school - she drops him off for 2 hours of childcare everyday when she goes to work. He's done no work at all.

Some key worker and vulnerable children have been in school every day all day since mid February. That's utterly shit. Those kids don't need any extra time in school.

We already keep our year 11’s and 13’s until 4.15. If the whole school had to stay back until 4, we couldnt run those revision classes with the year groups that actually need it. And They dont like working 8.45-4.15. They certainly wouldnt be volunteering to do 8.45-5pm. Not the students you actually need to stay anyway.

@MoreW1ne - I find your comment so unfair. There are many reasons why DC may not be up to speed other than they have 'rubbish parents'. Lots of DC have been in school all day as KW or vulnerable DC and don't have the time or energy at the end of the day to complete a day's school work. Some DC have parents working full time from home during the day and unable to do home learning with them. Some have no access to tech or enough tech for everyone. And some parents aren't able to teach all the work. I looked at some of my DD's maths problems today (Y3) and although I could do them myself I really had no idea how to explain it so she could understand. It has been tough!

I am incredibly grateful for everything the school has done for us over this period and can't wait til she is back at school with her excellent teachers!

No.

I was amazed at the number of TA jobs being advertised on TES. It used to be just an advert attached to the headteacher bulletin. If we don’t get those positions filled that will impact upon school return

No extra provision should be provided in September. Any child with a half decent parent will be on track and doing fine. Why should those students have to do extra work and miss out on extra curricular to support the children with rubbish parent

Ah, a lovely post from someone who doesn’t have a fucking clue about how other parents unlike her/him may be coping (or not).

I put myself in the decent parent box but I, like many working parents, cannot maintain my child’s education. I’m not a qualified teacher and funnily enough I’ve got a paid job to also maintain.