When kids go back in September, should schools stay open till 4pm

[Lardlizard]

To allow kids to catch up and allow workers to catch up on work

If teaching is such a cushty well-paid number, why do you know so many ex-teachers doing apparently shittier jobs? That’s a bit weird, isn’t it, that they left?

Most of the prep teachers take turns running clubs each evening till 6pm too

You think someone who, on average, is in school by around 8am getting set up for the day, should still be working at 6pm and then have to go home (which can be a considerable commute for some), do whatever we all do at home (dinner, tidy up, put the washing on, talk to children, bathe children etc.) and then set out planning and marking for the next day?

What you actually mean is teachers should be 100% owned by their school and parents without any quality of life whatsoever so why not just say that and own it?

OK over 195 days, still means they can be deployed a lot more than they are in most schools

Based on what, SoloMummy?

They don't clock off and on. If the school was open for business online then so were those teachers. They've done the hours.

[quote acsec]@SoloMummy lol at ‘cushty well paid number‘, oh yes I’m rolling in it.

I only live a mile and a half from where I work but I am unable to drive and walking with a 3 yr old isn’t particularly quick!

Also, why are you so angry?[/quote]
@acsec
You may not feel well paid, but believe me you are. Especially if above mps6-which you should be with your level of experience.
But even if below mps the salary is in most areas is way above the average level of earnings.
And as I said add in the 13 weeks annual leave where you could work elsewhere if so poorly paid.
And again you opting to walk the 1.5 miles to take 45 minutes is your choosing and if the time is so precious then learn to drive or get a taxi. Again not an employers issue. Either you're available to be deployed or you're breaking your contract.

@solomummy

Those aren't all contact hours you know, they include hours we are supposed to do planning, marking etc. There already aren't enough hours to complete the addition duties of a teacher and as a result many, many hours are worked unpaid.

@echt

OK over 195 days, still means they can be deployed a lot more than they are in most schools

Based on what, SoloMummy?

They don't clock off and on. If the school was open for business online then so were those teachers. They've done the hours.

As I said I have extensive experience in schools. Look at your own directed hours. I bet its not even at a 1000 hours!

Look at your own directed hours.I bet its not even at a 1000 hours!

????

If teaching is such a cushy job, why is there a recruitment and retention crisis? Nobody ever seems to be able to answer that question. If the teachers who flee the profession found that their new private sector jobs were harder and worse paid, as well as having shorter holidays, they should all be flocking back to teaching in their droves, no?

As I said I have extensive experience in schools. Look at your own directed hours.
I bet its not even at a 1000 hours!

How can that be? Directed hours, over 195 days, works out at under seven hours per day. How can teachers be working less than that, according to you,?

I teach 8.30 to 4 but have 3 weeks for Christmas and 8 weeks

I'm not trying to be goady, really, and I don't want longer school hours anyway... But, most people work those type of hours and they don't get 13 week's holiday. I do, and I get 30 days holiday. 13 week's is pretty excessive. Unless of course you want to add that you are actually working during 5:weeks odd of that time but not doing teaching hours. Are you?

Great idea. The budget for the additional 40-60 minutes of contact time per teacher per day - approximately 23-35 extra contact hours for a one-form intake, 7-teacher primary school in one five-day week - will come from....?

Look at your own directed hours. I bet its not even at a 1000 hours!

I just looked. It’s pretty close to 1265, there’s a small contingency.

You appear to have lost your bet.

@solomummy I didn’t say I can’t drive, I said I am unable to drive, not the same thing. Also not going to spend £15 a day to sit in traffic in a taxi. I never complained about the walking anyway - you seem to have a problem with that.

I think 9 and a half hours at work every day is a lot, no?

But, most people work those type of hours and they don't get 13 week's holiday.

But they don't get paid for 13 week's holiday. Most of that is unpaid, so it's like you having 6 weeks paid holiday and then taking 7 weeks unpaid leave. Why don't you do that if you want the same as teachers get?

@DadOnIce

Great idea. The budget for the additional 40-60 minutes of contact time per teacher per day - approximately 23-35 extra contact hours for a one-form intake, 7-teacher primary school in one five-day week - will come from....?

Plus on costs too - extra NI and pension contributions. That all comes from the budget.

@acsec I don’t think 9.5h a day is either unusual or excessive, I do the same on a good week for similar amount of pay and less holiday. Maybe that makes me a mug but I like my job and I chose to do it so I don’t complain even though I work beyond my contract. Most colleagues are the same.

most people work those type of hours and they don't get 13 week's holiday

We officially work from 9 - 3 or thereabouts. But we are in school from 8 and rarely leave before 4. Most people do a certain amount of work from home - planning and/or marking of an evening and weekends.

And we don't get paid for holidays beyond the statutory minimum anyway. If you want us to work holidays, you'll have to renegoitate the contract of every teacher in the country. Good luck!

As I said I have extensive experience in schools. Look at your own directed hours.I bet its not even at a 1000 hours!

Are you pissed/on glue?

Teachers do not not clock off and one, they are contracted for their hours.

This threads is about schools opening until 4.00. ,with the implication that teachers would be face-to-face in that time so going over their 1265 hours.

But, most people work those type of hours and they don't get 13 week's holiday. I do, and I get 30 days holiday. 13 week's is pretty excessive.

Actually it's pretty sweet.

If you want this you need to get a better union. Or be a teacher.

No, terrible idea! All the kids are in the same boat, they don’t need added pressure to catch up.

I’m a full time teacher. I teach 22 periods a week, 3 PPA periods. 2 days a week I run a P6 club - one for KS3, looking at literature from around to world and one KS4 exam specific club.

This means that days a week I teach 5 period then do a club. I’m in an urban, challenging school with a huge amount of deprivation. I’m also one of the safeguarding leads.

Honestly, on the days i do 5 lessons plus one extra I am totally exhausted. Running a class in a school like mine is physically, intellectually and emotionally draining. I have excellent behaviour management and I get great results - it’s bloody hard work.

If I had to do anadditional hour of high quality teaching every day, I think it would actually break me.

It would also mean that was 5 hours of time I currently use for marking and/or planning that would have to come out of my evenings/weekends- plus the additional marking and/or planning the hours would generate.

Go on. Someone tell me I have a can’t do attitude- I dare you.

Evita, she clearly said those were her “teaching hours”. Working hours are much longer.

If they are doing staggered starts for each bubble they should definitely use more of the hours in the day. E.g. 8-2, 8.15-2.15 8.30-2.30 and so on depending on which bubble you’re in, that way you can stagger playtimes to keep the bubbles separate and everyone gets a full school day.

If they are doing part time school days, e.g each child is only allowed in for, say, two days a week, then they need to max out those days and cram as much learning in as possible. It shouldn’t increase teachers planning time because they are still teaching the same amount of material in a week, just over two longer days and they could set practice stuff for the kids to work through at home for the rest of the week.

I don’t know how extra catch up hours would work unless the government injects some funding to pay overtime. There are definitely teachers out there who work considerably longer hours than other teachers. It’s probably those who have worked really hard so far that will be trying extra hard still to help their pupils catch up in September and those who’ve taken the lockdown as a nice holiday won’t. It’s frustrating if your child’s teacher isn’t as committed as someone else’s child’s teacher but it’s the case across all professions that there is huge variation as to how well people do their jobs.

Most of that is unpaid, so it's like you having 6 weeks paid holiday and then taking 7 weeks unpaid leave. Why don't you do that if you want the same as teachers get?
That old chestnut. Most jobs can't be done with the employee absent for 13 weeks /if a facility worked term time only would be out of business pronto. And as for teachers 'not being paid for them' of course they are! Do you seriously think you are worth the daily rate that discounting the holidays would add up to? Seriously deluded. No-one would design an education like this if they were starting from a modern standpoint. Antiquated system. Shakespeare's time when the schools followed the legal terms and summer was for harvesting children were in school from 6am in the summer to5pm (an hour later start in winter. So now we have the same hols but massively shorter days. We should have the days length we have now but reconfigure the holidays and definitely cut down from 13 weeks.
And those teachers who say they would resign - well good ! Better to cut out dead wood anyway.

There may be short days, but the curriculum has extended massively
They now have to teach primary science history geography PSE and all the maths and English

We have kids that aren’t potty trained or have no road sense kids who can’t tie shoe laces because ‘it’s schools job’

Emotional issues, you name it, schools have to teach it.