When kids go back in September, should schools stay open till 4pm

[Lardlizard]

To allow kids to catch up and allow workers to catch up on work

I think we need to figure out a way for wraparound care till the time it used to be to work, as a priority.

I always felt a bit that the private after school club at our school wouldn't allow children to do any supervised homework so it was all left for parents to do after 6. I think they need to start pulling their weight with catching up.

I can't fit any more contact hours in as a teacher I'm afraid, there is too much paperwork to do each day.

I think they need to start pulling their weight with catching up.
Why would a private after school club be duty-bound to do that? It's not really their "weight" to pull, as presumably they're primarily for play activities? And not particularly connected with the school, even if it's on-site and possibly even staffed by some of the same people? And it wouldn't be just "supervising" homework - with many children, it could be much more labour-intensive than that.

wouldn't allow children to do any supervised homework so it was all left for parents to do after 6. I think they need to start pulling their weight

Yeah or you could take some responsibility for your child’s education

Resign. Go ahead. You won't fund such a cushty well paid number outside of the classroom.

I'm tickled by this. I didn't find teaching cushty at all, but stayed longer than I should have out of guilt for the school/dept/children. I knew they would struggle to replace me (and they didn't manage to). I have, however, found a 'normal' job that's pretty cushty in comparison. I don't work evenings or weekends anymore. And I don't spend my holidays working.

And those teachers who say they would resign - well good ! Better to cut out dead wood anyway.

All of the staff I watched resign over the years weren't the dead wood. That's the problem. The dead wood had nowhere else to go. The people leaving were outstanding teachers.

Nah I'm good thanks. Clocking out at 3.05 myself. After that I expect parents to....parent.
Apparently though there's £millions 'extra' cash knocking about so they'll be some tutors to catch your child up if they've fallen behind.

No from the teachers' perspective for all the time/ planning/ directed time/ salary reasons already detailed.

No from the pupil's perspective. Children are often exhausted from school especially in the younger years or children with SENs.
Many children with SENs have struggled even more with home schooling than the rest of the cohort, poor diferentiation, poor support, delays in support services/ EHCPs, lack of peer role modelling and support, difficulties in adapting to a distracting non-specialist environment...
Adapting back to school will be difficult enough for children like this and increases hours will be an inefficient drain on their educational stamina and resiliance. Excessive learning time will once again exacerbate difficulties in learning.

One of my first lectures in teacher training was about needing to feel safe, secure and unstressed to be able to learn effectively.

No. 2 - 3pm is already mostly pointless.

@Iggly if you can’t get your child to work how do you expect them to listen to their teacher?

Am we just please stop bashing teachers and just be incredibly thankful that they do a job I really really wouldn't want to do.

I think it really has to be a vocation. As someone who works 37 hrs a week in a 'key worker ' role .. who gets 31 days holiday plus 11 'privilege days' and a salary of £38500 .. I would never get out of bed for the expectations of a teacher..

Would YOU give up you job to be one ??

Would YOU give up you job to be one ??

I have thought about doing that tbh.

[quote Jamielynn]@Iggly if you can’t get your child to work how do you expect them to listen to their teacher?[/quote]
Peer pressure and role modeling.
Different environment to home from sitting comfortably on child-sized furniture to not having toys and a TV in another room.
Collaboration with peers.
Different personalities and roles. Children want their parents to be parents and their teachers to be teachers (a big headfuck for my child with ASD despite my PGCE and remembering houng to my classroom befire I left the profession)
Greater variety of learning methods.

My children are good in school. They don't cope with home learning though. Home is their safe place to play and rest. A true home learning set up with groups and tutors could be different, but home learning 2020 is not the way that most home educators do it.

It won't happen so I'm not going to get too excited about it.

But I'll work the extra 5hrs pw for free if everyone else is doing that too - shop assistants, NHS, dentists, lawyers, hairdressers.

I know you're worried about your kids but surely you know that expecting us to work the equivalent of a school day each week for free isn't on? And there isn't any money to pay us.

@rawlikesushi I genuinely think that almost everyone who is working is working more at the moment, and many many people I know have had to take pay cuts of 25% and more. I’m definitely doing around 10h a week more with work, plus homeschooling.

Please don’t forget that most working parents have not had the choice to send children into school as key workers.

We have a 5 and an 8 year old who we’ve homeschooled (very well) between us whilst also taking on extra hours unpaid at work and are not complaining about it.

Unless we are going to tap into non working adults to help in schools (which apparently upthread is a terrible idea) then we all chose the responsibility of having children and the job of educating them so we all need to pull together to give them what they need. You have job security, a secure salary and you have been offered support as key worker parents throughout of you have children, there are a lot of things to be thankful for as a teacher right now even if it’s hard to see that.

No but where possible if needed younger years schools should increase the sizes of their breakfast and after school clubs for parents who need to catch up work and need wrap around childcare. Kids will have to have more homework I'm sure and therefore more marking anyway.

Kids will have to have more homework I'm sure

What, like the homework they've been set over the last 3 months and not completed, if threads on here are anything to go by?

[quote ConiferGate]@rawlikesushi I genuinely think that almost everyone who is working is working more at the moment, and many many people I know have had to take pay cuts of 25% and more. I’m definitely doing around 10h a week more with work, plus homeschooling.

Please don’t forget that most working parents have not had the choice to send children into school as key workers.

We have a 5 and an 8 year old who we’ve homeschooled (very well) between us whilst also taking on extra hours unpaid at work and are not complaining about it.

Unless we are going to tap into non working adults to help in schools (which apparently upthread is a terrible idea) then we all chose the responsibility of having children and the job of educating them so we all need to pull together to give them what they need. You have job security, a secure salary and you have been offered support as key worker parents throughout of you have children, there are a lot of things to be thankful for as a teacher right now even if it’s hard to see that.[/quote]
I am incredibly grateful for my job security and salary at this time and know how lucky I am to be in that position. DH is a teacher too so as a family we have no concerns over our jobs - I do not take that for granted. I really hope schools can return to normal in September and I am worried about my year 10 and 12 classes in particular. As well as wanted a sense of normality for my own children.

I think the issue with keeping schools open later is that, in my opinion, it would not have that much impact. Kids are tired at the end of a normal day, they do 6 different lessons a day in my school with a 20 min morning break and 40 min lunch. As a teacher I am tired as often I have taught 6 lessons a day also, and done a break duty and worked through lunch. Neither I or the students would be at their best during period 7.

Having a higher teaching load would impact on my planning and marking time, which I normally do before and straight after school. My planning would most likely not be as good as I would be forced to do it once my own children are in bed in an evening. This would lead to lower quality lessons. I personally think the students would benefit more from 4 good quality lessons a week from me than 5 lower quality ones.

Also my DS school were very clear that we could only use key worker provision if we were both out at work at the same time. Thanks to some coordination on our part and an understanding head teacher, there has always been either me or DH at home. So we have worked from home and home schooled also, throughout. I am not complaining about this. I'm really pleased that we did not need to use key worker as I know this put our DS and the staff at his school at lower risk. I am just pointing out that many teachers have been in the same boat as other parents working from home. I too have not had the choice to send my Ds to school under the key worker provision.

I have no idea what other schools have done with homework but precovid homework always was set, done and marked and is likely to be increased to catch up.

Home schooling has been hit or miss depending on schools.

Not all teachers have job security. School budgets are so tight that some teachers will have to be made redundant to ensure there aren't any budget deficits.

No. If that happens, I will withdraw my children and homeschool them. I want my children to have a childhood. They've missed out on so much this year, I don't want them stuck at school for any longer then necessary.

Controversial I know, but if there’s a need for children to catch up then a lot of teachers haven’t been doing their hours during closures so there shouldn’t be an issue with using them to catch up

What about if the work and support is in place but the children haven't bothered to do the lessons provided, be them live, recorded or material based?

I work in primary. If a child does all of the home learning provided they will not be falling behind. We know some have done most, if not all. We know some haven't accessed anything at all despite phone calls and even doorstep visits.

Agree, Aragog.
If any parent wants their child to "catch up," they can get them to complete the work sent through so far. In the summer holidays, too, so no need for Summer School, either.
Sorted!

DD year 7 finishes at 3.45 anyway and then goes to the library to wait for me and do homework, I collect her between 5 and 6. Her school is not walkable from home, it’s awkward on public transport and we aren’t on a school bus route. DS year 5 goes to after school club til between 5 and 6 so it wouldn’t make any difference to either of them. I don’t think DD needs to catch up she’s had a full timetable of live lessons since day 1 of school closure. It could definitely help in primary though.

"@rawlikesushi I genuinely think that almost everyone who is working is working more at the moment, and many many people I know have had to take pay cuts of 25% and more. I’m definitely doing around 10h a week more with work, plus homeschooling."

I am grateful for the job security.

I am also happy to work far more than the six hours per day I am paid for, as I always have done and will continue to do.

But an extra five hours pw on top of that, for an indefinite period until kids catch up, unpaid, when no other professions are being asked to do that?

Maybe NHS should offer 5hrs pw unpaid to clear the backlog of cancelled appointments, or dentists for the same reason? Just do their bit for the greater good, because they care so much yes?

Maybe, as stressed and as busy as you are, working all your extra hours, you'd be happy if your employer told you to add an extra 5hrs pw on top, unpaid, from September, for about a year?

If so you are a better person than me because I'm not doing it.

@Aragog with the best will in the world, my DC will not get the same education from me as they will their experienced teachers.
We're really struggling.

We asked for some support, was told all non shielding staff were in and run off feet and could not provide any feedback/interaction for children at home.
Saw a non shielding TA doing what looked looked like her weekly shop @ 1030 this morning. I know her fairly well (my ex excellent cleaner!) she cheerily told me she worked 1 day every 3 weeks until June and was now doing a 2 days a week.
I don't understand why the school think this is acceptable when they are providing so little interaction. So disappointed with the leadership @ the school.

@rawlikesushi it's usual for people in nhs to do extra unpaid hours. I don't think anyone should have to tbh. Everyone should all be paid for the hours they do.