When kids go back in September, should schools stay open till 4pm

[Lardlizard]

To allow kids to catch up and allow workers to catch up on work

Saturday mornings? University students paid tutoring rates.

I think that years 11 and 13 ought to have a longer day in September to make up for the loss of a quarter of their course time. At DD's school they don't finish until 5pm one day a week to fit an extra English lesson in anyway and much of the rest of the time she stays on until then to work on practical course work (3 creative subjects at GCSE). DC1 boards and some evenings they have lessons after dinner (7-9pm) so it really isn't the case that older DC will be too tired at 3.30pm....

My Y12s haven’t lost a quarter of their course time, actually they’re in a pretty good position. I think they might have even engaged better with the work remotely than they normally do in a hot classroom in the summer term with a million other things going on.

And I haven’t been teaching them live lessons, before anyone starts!

"Saturday mornings? University students paid tutoring rates."

I don't object to the idea but it would have to be optional, and the hard-to-teach who haven't engaged with any homelearning probably wouldn't engage with this either.

I think any catch-up has got to take place in school, within the school day, by being creative and flexible with timetables.

Even a properly funded and staffed extension to the school day would not be attended by those who most need it unless it was compulsory for everyone imo, and why should those who have worked hard and did all of the set homelearning, have to extend their day when they're exactly where they should be.

@rawlikesushi Maybe, as stressed and as busy as you are, working all your extra hours, you'd be happy if your employer told you to add an extra 5hrs pw on top, unpaid, from September, for about a year? If so you are a better person than me because I'm not doing it

I’m already working another 10h a week minimum on top of what I was doing before and I can’t say no as I don’t want to lose my job, you don’t seem to realise it’s a luxury to even be able to think you can challenge it.

No, definitely not.

We hear how much worry there is about the mental health of young people, and then there are proposals like this that will just make it much worse.

When people have a tough time, heaping on pressure makes it worse.

They need to catch up... on happiness.

I haven't read all the answers- it's late.
But - when I was at secondary school, we finished at 4.15, registration was 8.45. A 15 min break in the morning and afternoon plus iirc lunch was 12-1.15. Plus homework.

The school served a wide area, lots had to use public transport.

I don't see the problem with this for secondary age children. I am not sure when the times changed, but local schools now end at 3.15.

Children have missed so much school- this will help them catch up.

@girlicorne wow. A full programme of live lessons?! I'm so jealous.

Year 9. We've had no contact, the odd worksheet or quiz and mostly just basically sort yourselves out please. I've just cut and pasted one subjects work dated 23rd March-2nd September:

Please work through the past exam papers. You do not need to print these, you can complete them on paper and then check the answers using the mark scheme.


Any problems email me.

At my DD's school DC do school clubs when the school day finishes run by teachers. I think it would be a shame for them to continue to miss all their extra-curriculars that they have missed for so long.

For our school that would mean about 8 double decker buses that run as school buses at a set time having to re-schedule. Which would have an impact on the city rush hour bus services. Because those buses drop the kids off and then go straight onto a public route afterwards.
It just won't be feasible

I’ll just leave this by here for you op. You can share it with your teacher bashing MN chums.

@destinasia it’s great, one less thing for me to worry about working full time plus and homeschooling my ten year old who doesn’t get any live lessons, lots of guidance and feedback but no actual teacher contact other than email. I like how someone up thread said if they are doing the work sent they won’t be behind in September so I think he ll be ok but I don’t know how that works when the work set by schools seem to vary wildly. I think DD has done the second half of year 7 more or less how she would have at school but her friends at a different school have done almost nothing since March. I know GCSEs are a while away for them but how can they now be on an equal footing? I don’t know what the answer is!

No thanks, the school day is long enough already, not least for the teachers!

Those aren't all contact hours you know, they include hours we are supposed to do planning, marking etc. There already aren't enough hours to complete the addition duties of a teacher and as a result many, many hours are worked unpaid.

This.
I am absolutely sick of the number of people implying teachers have spent lockdown sitting around doing nothing. Even if we had ( which I certainly haven’t and don’t know any teacher who has ) I’ve worked enough free hours over the course of my career to still be many unpaid hours in credit. That’s without adding on extra hours for the Easter and June holiday that thousands of teachers gave up and worked for free.
To those who realise this. Thank you.

"I’m already working another 10h a week minimum on top of what I was doing before and I can’t say no as I don’t want to lose my job, you don’t seem to realise it’s a luxury to even be able to think you can challenge it."

I get paid for about six hours per day, roughly 9-3.

I actually work 7:30-5:30, so about four hours every day unpaid.

Not during the pandemic, every day, for all of my teaching career. I don't mind doing it - I chose teaching and absolutely love it. I have never complained about the hours.

But now parents blithely asking me to add a few more on top?

I understand that you're working about ten extra unpaid hours per week. How cheerful would you be about being told that will continue forever, with an extra five from September?

I'm sorry you're working so hard but it is not a race to the bottom. Whatever industry you are in, if you posted for advice regarding all of those unpaid hours, I would support you. Who would say 'tough luck, suck it up, get on with it, it's only an extra five hours pw, you owe it to the national effort, stop moaning, your own kids can manage without you for a few extra hours'. Nobody would say that. Unless you're a teacher.

@rawlikesushi it’s not 10h on top of my paid hours, it’s just the change since Covid. I’ve always worked in excess of my paid hours like everyone else I know, sadly I just don’t think it’s that exceptional??

It doesn’t make it right, but my point was that as a teacher you’re not facing threat of redundancies and long term pay cuts on top of extra hours, and you’ve had the support of key worker provision throughout which must have made a big difference, so whilst there are obviously things you’re not happy with as there are for everyone, there are aspects to be grateful for right now.

@Allmyeye there was a thread and poll a few weeks back which was really interesting, around half of teachers on it said they’d worked substantially less over lockdown. So people aren’t implying it without reason, likewise I hope everyone recognises that it’s not reflective of everyone’s experience and some have been working much much harder. It seems to be one of those anomalies right now though and I worry that the “dids” and “did nots” is going to become a bit of a sore divide going forwards. Those who worked extra long hours and took extra roles like home schooling as well have been hit hard whilst on opposite end of spectrum 8m people have been furloughed at taxpayers expense. I think that division will be reflected on lots if levels but we have to try not to be divided by it as we’ve never known times like this, and I hope we never will again (but fear it’s not over yet). I certainly realise that many people in all walks of life have had it tough and gone the extra marathon, but the general point is that everyone’s experience has been different so don’t feel like your efforts have been undervalued.

"so whilst there are obviously things you’re not happy with as there are for everyone, there are aspects to be grateful for right now."

There's nothing I'm not happy with except that I'm missing my class. I love my job and take the rough with the smooth. But I won't be extending my school day so shall look forward to being told how lazy and uncommitted I am in due course.

I would happily work this extra if the time was being spent on targeting specific groups of children each day then fine. It would need to be planned for a very specific time period though, say 2 terms. I'm not increasing my working hours without pay indefinitely...... would you?
My children will already struggle to get back into routine in Sept as it is, some are in already and are fit for nothing by 2.30pm so a 4pm finish would achieve nothing good on a whole class basis.
I also wouldn't want this for my own dd. She's worked hard all through lockdown and is ready to start her new year group. She'll. find the school day tiring as it is, after six months at home. A 4pm finish would make life harder for her.

Start and finish times are likely to be staggered anyway if we’re still in bubbles so yes, some groups will probably finish a little later but they’ll start later too. The trouble is that there’s huge variety in children’s current experience so catching up means different things. Some may need easing in gently, some will be ready to hit the ground running. Some have missed sections of the curriculum, some haven’t. I’m teaching FT and my DC are in keyworker provision all day and keeping up with their work. We’re all exhausted and very ready for summer holidays! Obviously that’s not the case for all children though. As teachers, September is going to be very interesting. We’ll need a period of assessment to work out where the hell everyone is before putting together an action plan.

No my husband has worked right through all of this face to face teaching with no protection at all. I'm damned if he's working extra hours just so you get free childcare!

@Casino218 you make me laugh! But hey if it’s just free childcare and we are all counting, maybe we should start claiming some of our hours back from the past 3 months? Honestly, it’s comments like that which just worsen the divide and help no one.

@ConiferGate "and you’ve had the support of key worker provision throughout which must have made a big difference"

As I explained before this has not been an option for a number of teachers, unless both them and their partner have been out at work. Most teachers have also worked from home and home schooled (sat their kids in front of the playstation for an hour at a time whilst doing online live lessons). So whilst knowing that the key worker provision was there if me and DH both had to go out to work (to look after key worker students) was definitely appreciated, the "support" you mentioned has not had a big difference on my day to day work - in fact it has had no difference.

I'm sorry you are having to work extra hours unpaid and still have the worry of the security of your job. That is really rubbish. I'm also sorry that you feel you can't say no to the extra hours. As a teacher I have worked extra unpaid hours for the last 11 years, it has got to a point where I would have to say no I just can't do anymore, surely you too would have a point that you would fight back? (Or at least fight back against strangers on the internet telling you that you should always just do more and saying you haven't done enough recently?)

Besides that I have pointed out previously that I do not think an extra lesson a day for students would have much impact academically. I stand by that.

@Casino218 I very much doubt it’ll be up to you what your husband does. It’s not childcare I want or need, it’s getting the kids back up to speed. I have “childcare” sorted. I’ve tried my hardest during lockdown to homeschool my GCSE child alongside siblings but funnily enough as an arts graduate I know nothing about GCSE physics. Just to pre empt the usual suspects who cry “ educate your own child!”

I would suggest the best recompense for a slightly longer day would be shorter terms and longer holidays for teachers.

I'll write the equivalent response aimed at parents...

No extra provision should be provided in September. Any child with a half decent parent will be on track and doing fine. Why should those students have to do extra work and miss out on extra curricular to support the children with rubbish parents.

(Note the actual vulnerable with pretty much no parenting wont actually attend these so dont chuck that back. These catch ups are just aimed at the moaning rubbish parents.)