people, please, stay home if you can

[Lua]

Most places that have eased lockdown measures, are seeing an increase in the number of cases. So there is no way around it (at least in the short-term), live a "normal life" and increase the risk for everyone (there are no "personal risk" in a pandemic).

I see a lot of people in mumsnet saying that we suffer too much to save the lives of 80 year olds. While I find this cold assessment horrible on its own, there are so many case of under 60s suffering badly. This is a harrowing picture of 63 year old woman:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/25/from-cold-to-coma-to-homecoming-one-womans-100-days-of-coronavirus

Sure, the risk is low. Sure, we deal with risks all the time. But we also try to mitigate risks all the time. We use seat belts, and we look before we cross the road, we use helmets, etc There are many reasons why someone needs to go into work, and those are understandable. But do people "need" to go to raves, beaches, cinemas? do we really need to go into shops and buy a new summer outfit?

Life needs to be different, and we need to find new ways to make our economy tick. Lots of opportunities in new fields. Lets support each other and look for new ways to make the world go around.

if some people lose income there is a safety net, there is the opportunity to re-build
actually, no I wouldn't be able to rebuild my business.
I don't want to lose my income/ home/ lifestyle due to a miniscule chance of becoming ill.
Those that want to hide away, feel free but don't blithely tell me it's OK for me to lose my income when I have bills to pay and 3 children to look after.
selfish selfish attitude

Oh my god. Yes, people should take precautions and not go against guidelines, but if we stay locked up forever Covid deaths will be a drop in the ocean compared to deaths from poverty, delayed treatments etc. If there's no one to pay taxes, the NHS will be truly screwed.

Stay in forever if it makes you feel like a better person. But I can say from personal experience that for some people there is not a 'safety net.' Caring about other humans doesn't mean only caring about Covid. I swear some people are just treating this as an opportunity to try and assert their own superiority.

What is the safety net exactly? Thank god, we need not have worried all along

we’ve jumped the shark here and are on to the episode where everyone staying in is a virtuous altruistic saint and anyone venturing outside is a slathering imbecilic Barbarian puffing Covid fumes everywhere.

Perhaps we could replace the problematic statues with effigies of those who have stayed in as clearly they are morally superior and should be duly venerated.

@Jrobhatch29

What is the safety net exactly? Thank god, we need not have worried all along

Quite. I'm on the JSA "safety net" and were I a lone parent it would cover about half my monthly outgoings.

if some people lose income there is a safety net, there is the opportunity to re-build

And of course society looks so kindly on those who need a safety net.

@Msmcc1212

I am being open and honest. Glad that you can be too. You know, deep down, that doing whatever the fk you want to do, at this point in history is fundamentally wrong. We have to consider the impact on other people - if some people lose income there is a safety net, there is the opportunity to re-build. There is NO coming back from death. Once your lungs are fkd they are fkd.

I'll tell my mortgage lender that when I lose my job an am on UC, which doesn't have a housing element for mortgage-holders. 'I'm on the safety net and trying to rebuild!' See what they say.

Deep down, I'm quite happy with what I do. I'm entirely happy to see my reflection in the mirror of Primark changing rooms, in my rearview mirror at a light as I cruise over to IKEA, in the bathroom at a restaurant. Don't see a thing wrong with that at all. Not a one. It's rather funny that there are people out there who truly think other people are internally flagellating themselves over their choices - what a waste of energy that must be!

hashtagbollocks

You wouldn’t be losing it to a minuscule risk of being ill. You’d lose it to protect a lot of people from dying unnecessarily? Obviously I don’t want you to lose your income and lifestyle but I’d rather that than see a huge spike in unnecessary deaths.

@Msmcc1212

It’s really not that hard. In order to keep the infection rate low - minimise your interactions with other human beings. Assess whether you need to do x y z and try and make some small sacrifices to do your bit. Is that really too much to ask?

How much is a small sacrifice?

Back on the 17th March, I could handle small sacrifices of my running races being cancelled left right and centre, and my volunteering roles and the DCs activities grinding to a halt. Losing the DCs education was a hammer blow, I think I'm glad that I didn't know that that was the premature end of their school year. EHCP processes have ground to a halt, and are now likely to impact secondary transition processes that start in a year. DH was already working from home. I haven't had more than the occasional 45 minutes alone while they've been out walking. It's only this week that I've finally seen a relative after 4 months. I've seen 3 friends. Most people are too trapped in their own bubbles of busyness or fear to be able to meet. My whole sense of routine and purpose has long since floundered and I've reached stages of random sobbing (and fortunately found the other side)

I do "non-essential" things. I could have ordered the DCs new shoes and t-shirts last week, but it was healthy for us and good for the businesses to go into the stores. We illegally went to an empty playground to shift my 7 yo's depressed mood and it was a complete joy to watch him climb, balance and swing for the first time in 3+ months. I left the house to exercise more than once a day in the early weeks because my DCs and I found it hard to adjust to our temporary normal of being sedentary couch potatoes, plus there was no one around at 10pm at night to infect when the DCs were bouncing around with unspent energy.

Our whole routines of life have been overthrown. But that wasn't enough for some making uo their own rules of one hour exercise or about shopping frequency or non-essential items.
The rules/guidelines we broke were of minimal risk to anyone including ourselves, and the 99% of the time we've abided by them still weren't enough to please others.

I have an outing at a formal attraction booked for next week. Not strictly essential, but it helps keep a charitable organisation financially solvent, is educational to the DCs and gives us something to look forwards to and is good for our well-being.

Unlike some of my friends, I haven't faced unemployment, relationship breakdown or having to move back in with parents because I can no longer afford to live independently, so my position could be far worse. My town is facing mass redundancies connected to tourism, plus other businesses finding the final nail in the coffin.

I don't need to crowd to a busy beach (although if I knew of one only 2 hours away that was delightfully quiet, that would

Quite. I'm on the JSA "safety net" and were I a lone parent it would cover about half my monthly outgoings.

And that is shit. And should change. It’s not fair. And I’m sorry about that. But ‘back to normal’ means lots of unnecessary death. Death is the end. No recovery. No coming back. No opportunity to vote in a new Government that might try to create more equality.

That would be fantastic. I don't need illicit raves (although I can understand the attraction to bored, unemployed/ uneducated youths after months- I don't condone the mess and any crimes that occur.
But I do need more than being stuck at home, understimulated in a comfortable prison with occasional release for morally approved activities.
There's no point in existing without living, and the economy needs normality to be able to pay tax to support public services including the NHS.

This whole thing is shit. We didn’t chose it. We don’t want it. None of us deserve it. But the least we can do for our fellow human beings is make choices that give us all the best chance. That’s opening things up to a degree. Getting the economy going as much as possible. But continuing to make some SMALL sacrifices to continue the impact made if those larger sacrifices we have all already made. We can all do our bit, whilst doing things that do give us a quality of life. Skipping the odd luxury isn’t too much to ask of us all if it saves the lives of others.

@Msmcc1212

Quite. I'm on the JSA "safety net" and were I a lone parent it would cover about half my monthly outgoings.

And that is shit. And should change. It’s not fair. And I’m sorry about that. But ‘back to normal’ means lots of unnecessary death. Death is the end. No recovery. No coming back. No opportunity to vote in a new Government that might try to create more equality.

I noticed that death is the end. My big outing this week was to my dad's grave, and he still hasn't come back after nearly 30 years.

Being told that your dad died when you're still at junior school gives you an early sense of mortality. It made me more determined that my life should be a life well lived. Active. Full of experiences.

I don't want to die prematurely, but I'm not scared of death either. My DCs would be changed, but they would keep going.

It bothers me more that elderly relatives might reach the end of their lives anyway, and we unknowingly wasted and neglected their final months.

But ‘back to normal’ means lots of unnecessary death

And otherwise avoidable non Covid deaths? What about them? The Samaritans say there is a link between poverty and financial instability and suicide. Are those people necessary collateral damage?

It's nowhere near as straightforward as staying home to save lives.

@Msmcc1212

hashtagbollocks

You wouldn’t be losing it to a minuscule risk of being ill. You’d lose it to protect a lot of people from dying unnecessarily? Obviously I don’t want you to lose your income and lifestyle but I’d rather that than see a huge spike in unnecessary deaths.

Yes, because more widespread poverty and homelessness are much better than Covid. hashtag, so selfish you are, it's all about your lifestyle of feeding yourself, paying for power and keeping a roof over your head. Surely you could sleep on the street at the alter of Almighty Covid.

Obviously I don’t want you to lose your income and lifestyle but I’d rather that than see a huge spike in unnecessary deaths
well there's not going to be a massive spike so that's ok.
My family and I would be fine catching it ( almost 100% certain on that)
we won't be fine if my business goes under.
if people want to stay in, then stay in then I can't pass anything on to them, can I.
i know I'll get piled on for this, but eventually, you have to be selfish and take care of yourself and your own family to best way you can and leave others to work out what they should do

Here goes with the collective again. 'We are Borg. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated'.

I generally find people disgusting and unlikeable so I’m quite happy for the majority to crack on to be honest.

disobendient
yes, you're right: I'm a bad bad person and should happily squeeze myself, my husband and 3 children into a b and b for the homeless

Our whole routines of life have been overthrown. But that wasn't enough for some making uo their own rules of one hour exercise or about shopping frequency or non-essential items

I agree. And when people talk about our lockdown not being strict enough, all they really mean is that we weren't confined to our houses like in Spain, or only allowed out a few hundred metres like in Italy. Is there any evidence that we have more cases because we were allowed out for exercise or had a choice of supermarkets? Perhaps we would have had more cases, because of lack of vitamin D, if we'd stayed indoors for three months?

I am not really a pub goer anyway so I don't really care whether they open or not. But I am sure I would miss the ones that serve nice food if they were gone.

But ‘back to normal’ means lots of unnecessary deaths

Evidence?

I think we are opening up a little too quickly, but we can't hide away for ever and we need health services back to normal asap.

@hashtagbollocks

disobendient yes, you're right: I'm a bad bad person and should happily squeeze myself, my husband and 3 children into a b and b for the homeless

You can live off your moral superiority and use sanctimony to top up the power meter. Works a treat!

Posters need to take on board that preventing people from earning their keep and supporting their family is a very serious problem for society.

You just can’t expect people to be okay about the prospect of losing their homes (for example). We all know what homelessness does for children’s outcomes. For people facing these kinds of sacrifices when they themselves are very low risk, well it just doesn’t stack up. We are hardwired to look after our own first.

Getting the economy going as much as possible

You were wagging your finger at us above about how we should 'minimise interaction with other human beings'.

Yes now you want to get the economy going as much as possible?

How is that going to work? The economy involves people going out, eating in restaurants, going to cinemas, getting their hair done, exercising in the gym, travelling, socialising in cafes and so on. You know, all the frivolities you stare down at with contempt from your moral high ground.

The OP was talking about magic new ways of getting said economy going.

I haven’t read a big chunk of the thread. Did they materialise as anything concrete?

Oh, she had some really genius money spinners, Laurie. These:
There is a clear need to develop better tracking app that also preserve privacy. Lots of jobs in that.

Repurposing roads for more bike traffic.

Developing bettetr ways to process meat

Hiring more teachers

Developing online curricula

Just a few ideas.

I can already see the GNP going up and banks falling over themselves to loan the government money to enable all our sacrifices.