people, please, stay home if you can

[Lua]

Most places that have eased lockdown measures, are seeing an increase in the number of cases. So there is no way around it (at least in the short-term), live a "normal life" and increase the risk for everyone (there are no "personal risk" in a pandemic).

I see a lot of people in mumsnet saying that we suffer too much to save the lives of 80 year olds. While I find this cold assessment horrible on its own, there are so many case of under 60s suffering badly. This is a harrowing picture of 63 year old woman:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/25/from-cold-to-coma-to-homecoming-one-womans-100-days-of-coronavirus

Sure, the risk is low. Sure, we deal with risks all the time. But we also try to mitigate risks all the time. We use seat belts, and we look before we cross the road, we use helmets, etc There are many reasons why someone needs to go into work, and those are understandable. But do people "need" to go to raves, beaches, cinemas? do we really need to go into shops and buy a new summer outfit?

Life needs to be different, and we need to find new ways to make our economy tick. Lots of opportunities in new fields. Lets support each other and look for new ways to make the world go around.

@Kazzyhoward

kazzy if few toilets were open that is the fault of the council, have a go at them.

There were never going to be enough toilets for hundreds of thousands of people even without covid!

When crowds are expected (i.e. air shows etc), councils rent in portaloos. Councils couldn't have been expected to prepare for hundreds of thousands of idiots to descend on their beaches when we're still supposed to be following social distancing.

It's also VERY well known that public toilets are closed in many places so those idiots who went to the beaches went there knowing full well that there was a likelihood that public loos would be restricted.

So, no I won't be having a go at the council. I will stick with having a go at all the idiotic numpties who went to the beach knowing full well we're still in the midst of a pandemic, that most things were closed, etc.

This is it. It was like Glastonbury yesterday the number of people swarming in and how many toilets are there? Not that it stops people pissing all over the place mind you.

@vera99

This is herd immunity and a mass test to see the current state of the virus. Everybody there should get a Boris Badge for testing the waters with good old British gusto.

Go Have Fun
Cross your Fingers
Test the Virus

@vera99 I do agree that it is a mass test of sorts: Bojo wants us to break the rules by ourselves, so that he can say "I told you so", and also to tempt us to try herd immunity on ourselves, as he can't publicly say that's the plan. He doesn't want the responsibility of asking people to become guinea pigs, they just do it themselves. As for badges, I want a badge: not a Boris badge, but one which says "this is not my new normal" or "time to live again".

Interestingly, one thing Mumsnet often moans about is how we love disposable stuff so much, and how they'll end up in landfill. But disposable masks and gloves are OK, disposability being vital, because they could never be washed enough to eradicate traces of nasty viruses? Suddenly in Sainsburys, the staff are all in workwear saying "please keep your distance", actually printed on their clothes. What environmental carnage, having those produced when they won't be needed for ever (whatever the dementors might wish). Ditto all the signs on the ground about social distancing.

A lot of people keep foaming at the mouth and telling me I am arguing people should stay home at all costs. I am not, and you'll see I have not said that once.

I’m more interested in your ‘new ways to get the economy going again’ OP.

We need more details. I’m sure you’ll provide. And quick. Because lots of people will be needing ‘new ways to pay the mortgage’ pretty imminently.

Define staying at home if you can though. Is work acceptable? School? Supermarket shop? Non essential shop? Visiting a friend? Trip to the beach or on a walk further afield with a picnic?

It's all defined in the latest iteration of the government guidelines

Which begin with 'stay at home if you can'

It's not a case of whether a specific activity is specifically banned. There are lots of things which can be done to foster your economic, physical and mental wellbeing. But you do what you need, then stay home the rest of the time

But disposable masks and gloves are OK, disposability being vital, because they could never be washed enough to eradicate traces of nasty viruses

I don't think they are ok. I am using reusable cloth face coverings, and I don't think you need disposable gloves if you wash your hands frequently. I also don't think hairdressers need disposable gowns if they wash them properly. Also why can't we use washable cups rather than having to go back to the throwaway ones?

It's different in medical sectors but I am quite sure we use far less plastic rubbish than is being claimed.

I saw Dr Hilary on a merry go round/carousel when I was 7 bet he’s licking Brighton rock now he knows a good time, bring out Chris Whitty

It’s not enough to just assess your own risk - to those that are doing that. You should take into account the risk for others too. I fully intend to do my upmost to try not to indirectly cause suffering or death to another human being through asymptomatic spreading. I don’t need to go to the shops so I won’t. Shops will need to adapt and deliver as many of our local shops have. It’s not that hard. If the beaches are too crowded I’ll stay away because that is a sad, but easy way I can reduce my risk of causing harm. We can all do our bit, whilst having a decent quality of life.

It’s not enough to just assess your own risk - to those that are doing that. You should take into account the risk for others too.

With all this considering others, there won't be time to do anything else soon.

Are you really going to consider others in everything you do? I sure as hell won't be.

The people crowding the beach are not the ones desperate to earn money to feed their children, are they?

Or people like me who took the day off.

*But I wasn't crowding, peeing in gardens or leaving rubbish.

Nope. Back to normal thanks, before we’re all bankrupt.

Also, I dont understand the ‘horrific picture’ reference to that Guardian article.

I don’t need to go to the shops so I won’t. Shops will need to adapt and deliver as many of our local shops have

They won't because people are allowed to go to the shops as often as they wish. People like yourself who want to lock themselves up all summer are a distinct minority, and a very good thing that is too.

It’s not enough to just assess your own risk - to those that are doing that. You should take into account the risk for others too.

The whole of the UK ? the world ? How many we talking about ?

I don't think you are being unreasonable OP.

I find it really interesting how the consensus has swung. At the beginning, the majority were screaming for schools to be closed and if anyone broke the lockdown rules they would be pounced upon. Now the majority are screaming for their DC to be back in schools and desperate to get back to all activities again.

It's like an experiment in mass psychology!!

With all this considering others, there won't be time to do anything else soon.

Are you really going to consider others in everything you do? I sure as hell won't be.

Yes. I do consider others a lot of the time - it’s not an effort because I give a fk about other people. I live a perfectly happy existence that way. When I get to the end of my life I want to look back and feel good about myself. I don’t want to look back and feel ashamed because I put my own frivolous wants and desires above the basic safety and wellbeing of my fellow human beings. It’s called ’not being a selfish tw*t.’

We can go to shops, beaches, parks etc but we can also cut back on these things and make sensible choices. If it’s packed already, turn around and go somewhere else.

I don’t see why some people wanting to make compassionate choices makes other people so angry...unless may be it’s because it holds up an unbecoming mirror? A bit like when heavy drinkers get cross with t-totallers?

Nope, my stance hasn't really changed. I have followed the rules and I still think it right that we lockdown in March, but my concern for things other than covid has always been there. Oh and I never jumped on anyone.

The whole of the UK ? the world ? How many we talking about ?

Is it really that hard to consider the impact of your actions on others. I am dismayed that this is so beyond some people. There is a serious breakdown in empathy and compassion there that makes me incredibly concerned for the future of humankind.

I don't think the same demented rush to get out there was replicated anywhere in Europe, but Brexit means UK is special, no rules apply
for a start, yes they have. Spain had to block access to beaches as they were rammed.
secondly, what the fuck has brexit got to do with it.
Thirdly, why are some people on here so keen to portray the country they live in as being shit compared to all others? Do you think no other countries have questioned their gov. response to this?
No, let's trot out the "we're the laughing stock of Europe" when really, they couldn't give a shit and are just dealing with their own mess as well as they can

@Msmcc1212

The whole of the UK ? the world ? How many we talking about ?

Is it really that hard to consider the impact of your actions on others. I am dismayed that this is so beyond some people. There is a serious breakdown in empathy and compassion there that makes me incredibly concerned for the future of humankind.

What a load of sanctimonious twaddle. Where’s your empathy and compassion for the African children mining the minerals for your device screen with their bare hands? (To name but one shining hypocrisy about your daily life I’m sure)

When I get to the end of my life I want to look back and feel good about myself. I don’t want to look back and feel ashamed because I put my own frivolous wants and desires above the basic safety and wellbeing of my fellow human beings. It’s called ’not being a selfish twt.’*

No, it's called being a sanctimonious curtain twitcher.

What you call "frivolous wants and desires" - going shopping, having a meal in a restaurant, a drink in a pub and so on - are other people's liveliehoods. You know, those 'fellow human beings' you profess to care about so deeply. If everyone barricaded themselves at home like you seem to want them to do, many thousands will lose their jobs, maybe also their homes and their health, both mental and physical. Obsessing over one risk at the expense of everything else doesn't make you a better person.

It’s really not that hard. In order to keep the infection rate low - minimise your interactions with other human beings. Assess whether you need to do x y z and try and make some small sacrifices to do your bit. Is that really too much to ask?

I don’t see why some people wanting to make compassionate choices makes other people so angry...unless may be it’s because it holds up an unbecoming mirror? A bit like when heavy drinkers get cross with t-totallers?

Oh god

Isn't that what people do in normal times anyway? You make plans and you do them then return home.

Is it a case of don't go out all day? Don't do too many things at once? What happens if I want to do my supermarket shopping, visit a friend and then go for a run in the same day? It's all allowed. Do I have to stagger my plans so supermarket on day 1, stay at home the rest of the time. Visit friend day 2, stay at home, run day 3, stay at home. What about if I do all the things on one day but don't leave the house at all for the next 2 days?

minimise your interactions with other human beings

Good thing nobody gave you the right to tell other human beings what to do, isn't it?

I am being open and honest. Glad that you can be too. You know, deep down, that doing whatever the fk you want to do, at this point in history is fundamentally wrong. We have to consider the impact on other people - if some people lose income there is a safety net, there is the opportunity to re-build. There is NO coming back from death. Once your lungs are fkd they are fkd.

if some people lose income there is a safety net, there is the opportunity to re-build

Where's the money to 're-build' going to come from? The economy is already on its knees and would be totally phucked if people like you had their way. And how many lives will be ruined and even lost while we wait to 're-build' with non-existent money?