people, please, stay home if you can

[Lua]

Most places that have eased lockdown measures, are seeing an increase in the number of cases. So there is no way around it (at least in the short-term), live a "normal life" and increase the risk for everyone (there are no "personal risk" in a pandemic).

I see a lot of people in mumsnet saying that we suffer too much to save the lives of 80 year olds. While I find this cold assessment horrible on its own, there are so many case of under 60s suffering badly. This is a harrowing picture of 63 year old woman:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/25/from-cold-to-coma-to-homecoming-one-womans-100-days-of-coronavirus

Sure, the risk is low. Sure, we deal with risks all the time. But we also try to mitigate risks all the time. We use seat belts, and we look before we cross the road, we use helmets, etc There are many reasons why someone needs to go into work, and those are understandable. But do people "need" to go to raves, beaches, cinemas? do we really need to go into shops and buy a new summer outfit?

Life needs to be different, and we need to find new ways to make our economy tick. Lots of opportunities in new fields. Lets support each other and look for new ways to make the world go around.

news.sky.com/video/coronavirus-crowded-beach-and-rubbish-strewn-park-in-bournemouth-12014614

There’s really not much social distancing going on on this video, more social clumping.

Why the heck couldn’t they take their rubbish home with them?

@IrmaFayLear

I think Stay At Home At All Costs people should come clean and state their financial position and skin in the game (and size of garden).

And not all shielded people are of the same mindset. It’s incredibly annoying when some of the shielded think they are terribly special and instead of just exercising caution, are on a crusade to stuff up the lives of everyone else. I should think a good 90% of them (and I include myself in this) had no idea they were “vulnerable” before Covid. And now they are suddenly these delicate beings who need protecting like some Victorian young lady. I was going about my daily business at the start of the year. Funny that I’m now supposed to be a miserable whingeing egotist or I’m not on the Shielded Team.

I agree to some extent in that those of us who are vulnerable need to take some responsibility for our own circumstances and health. And yes, many of us have likely been vulnerable to other illnesses for a long time. But you must realise how different this is, if not the disease itself the narrative that has been built around it and the consequences that has had. We have been relentlessly told for over three months that if we get COVID the consequences will likely be dire. I don't necessarily think this is true, indeed statistics tell us that even the most vulnerable of us will likely survive. But this is not the narrative that has been dictated to us, so people are understandably afraid.

I too was going about my business at the start of the year, but you can't honestly say that circumstances haven't changed. It's not that we didn't realise we were 'vulnerable' - you surely must have been aware to some extent prior to this if you have a condition of this relative severity? Rather the goalposts have shifted to an extent we could never have imagined. You are clearly very robust, and I'm glad for you. I'm building myself up to that and I will be going back to work and uni soon. But others are really struggling and your words are very cruel. If you can find some views that could reasonably be defined as the work of a 'miserable whingeing egotist' I would be very interested to see them.

@shieldedsally

I think this is one of the most short-sighted threads I've ever seen, and I'm dismayed that so many people can't see what is going to happen in just the next few weeks. And this isn't one of those "We all decide for ourselves" situations, because the effects of individual behaviour are felt socially in the case of infectious disease.

I have been shielded since the week before the official lockdown, and I haven't been anywhere or seen anyone. It's not the best time I've ever had in my life but it's not that hard either. One thing I have learned, though, is that the majority of people are incredibly bad at dealing with any kind of adversity. Especially the middle classes. So perhaps I should not be surprised at the lack of patience, resilience, strength, and self-reliance on display here.

This is why Italy and Spain were able to get over the worst of it a lot quicker and their death rates are now close to zero. They had the resilience and strength to do what was needed. Like America we're too weak and entitled.

We don’t have a cure or a vaccine yet but we do know a lot more about how Covid is spread. Apparently catching from surfaces is possible but very unlikely and most spread is through droplets. Most spread also appears to be indoors

The current outbreak in Melbourne has largely come about through spread within large, extended families. Several family members had been tested for covid but still attended large family get togethers, probably with lots of hugging and kissing.

Because we know more about how this is spread there are ways of keeping infection numbers down without blanket lockdowns.

Also, as terrible as those beach photos looked your chance of catching covid there is pretty low.

Weak and entitled sums it up to me too.

Did anyone watch BbC Breakfast this morning. The view of Bournemouth beach, taken from the air over the sea, clearly showed small groups with a good distance between them. The they went back to a side on view and it looked like everyone was virtually touching. Very interesting to see how easy it is to manipulate people's perception

I've been saying this all along. Misleading photos of people "crowding" together led to parks being closed and Box Hill being closed to cyclists, for example.

The pictures I saw of Bournemouth beach made it look busy but people were spaced out. The problem appears to have been more the anti-social behaviour, leaving cars anywhere, dumping rubbish etc. Nothing to do with the virus.

Weak and entitled sums it up to me too.

Yep agree. It’s pretty weak to be scared of catching covid and entitled in the extreme to expect everyone to lockdown for your fear. We did it to flatten the curve and now we need to start living again.

I too was going about my business at the start of the year, but you can't honestly say that circumstances haven't changed. It's not that we didn't realise we were 'vulnerable' - you surely must have been aware to some extent prior to this if you have a condition of this relative severity?

Unfortunately, some people are in denial about the state of their health, especially those who are obese and/or diabetes. Just because they can get tablets from the GP to reduce their blood sugar levels, they think it's OK. I think Covid has been a massive wake up call for those to realise that obesity is a real problem and that the NHS can't always cure everything.

As for underlying conditions my OH is "extremely clinically vulnerable" under the covid guidance. Nothing new there. He has blood cell cancer and knows his immune system is impaired and, long before Covid, was doing all he could to avoid catching anything, including wiping down surfaces in hotel rooms, carrying handgel, avoiding crowds etc.

Did anyone watch BbC Breakfast this morning. The view of Bournemouth beach, taken from the air over the sea, clearly showed small groups with a good distance between them. The they went back to a side on view and it looked like everyone was virtually touching. Very interesting to see how easy it is to manipulate people's perception

In seaside resorts, the beach itself is only part of the problem. What the pictures don't show are the shops heaving with people making no attempt to social distance, nor the queues for ice cream and burger vans, again, not socially distanced. Nor the few toilets that were open - again rammed full of people, even some not washing their hands. Same at petrol stations, etc etc. People need to stop justifying such stupidity and stop being in denial as to the very real risks caused by hundreds of thousands of people driving for hours from one region to another and then not respecting social distancing.

Nor the few toilets that were open - again rammed full of people, even some not washing their hands.

It's a problem at the point where people have to use the toilet. Either whether it's pissing and defecating all over the place or using public toilets. A few people using a public toilet is one thing but hundreds or thousands is.

It’s pretty weak to be scared of catching covid

Honestly, Teateaandmoreatea? Could you be any more cruel? Did you consider the vulnerable when you wrote that statement? If I caught COVID, it is likely it would affect me badly because of my existing issues. So yes, I am frightened about the likelihood of catching it, and I don’t think that makes me weak - just realistic.

Personally I think the more people who get out there and spread it around the better.

Get out there and mix. Swap spit, whatever.

Get those numbers up asap and then they will extend shielding and the country will be a safer place for the vulnerable as we won't be forced to go to work.

Spread the virus around and help save a vulnerable person should be the new government Moto.

This is herd immunity and a mass test to see the current state of the virus. Everybody there should get a Boris Badge for testing the waters with good old British gusto.

Go Have Fun
Cross your Fingers
Test the Virus

squirm I don't think you can catch covid from dodgy parking.
kazzy if few toilets were open that is the fault of the council, have a go at them.

@Teateaandmoretea

Weak and entitled sums it up to me too.

Yep agree. It’s pretty weak to be scared of catching covid and entitled in the extreme to expect everyone to lockdown for your fear. We did it to flatten the curve and now we need to start living again.

Living again = all manner of anti-social and criminal behaviour in beaches, raves, street parties and protests.

kazzy if few toilets were open that is the fault of the council, have a go at them.

How many public toilets are there in and around these beaches? Not enough to cater for tens of thousands who swarm in whenever the sun comes out. Usually people would use bars, pubs, restaurants, coffee shops and cafes, other shops etc. All things that are still shut.

People should use some common sense and think about things before they swarm in and get caught short.

I was looking at Bournemouth beach on their webcam. The people I saw were crammed together with no social distancing.

Looks a lot better this morning.

magicseaweed.com/Bournemouth-Surf-Report/12/

kazzy if few toilets were open that is the fault of the council, have a go at them.

There were never going to be enough toilets for hundreds of thousands of people even without covid!

When crowds are expected (i.e. air shows etc), councils rent in portaloos. Councils couldn't have been expected to prepare for hundreds of thousands of idiots to descend on their beaches when we're still supposed to be following social distancing.

It's also VERY well known that public toilets are closed in many places so those idiots who went to the beaches went there knowing full well that there was a likelihood that public loos would be restricted.

So, no I won't be having a go at the council. I will stick with having a go at all the idiotic numpties who went to the beach knowing full well we're still in the midst of a pandemic, that most things were closed, etc.

People should use some common sense and think about things before they swarm in and get caught short.

Unfortunately, it seems a lot of people no longer possess common sense!

A lot of people keep foaming at the mouth and telling me I am arguing people should stay home at all costs. I am not, and you'll see I have not said that once.

I expected people to disagree, of course. Why would I bother to make a plea if I already thought everyone agreed?

I find interesting the assumptions people make about posters.... I'm not going to address them but they are funny.

All I am pleading people to do, is to be careful, and stay home if they can. Things are not safe, and epidemics is about chain of transmissions, is not about individual health assessments. If you do not see that things are kicking up everywhere else in the world, you are blind. What you do today with your hot head of " had enough" will come back straight to you sooner or later, be careful.

Yes, I find people being passive aggressively sneery, patronising and condescending equally funny

Life isn't safe. It never has been.

What you do today with your hot head of " had enough" will come back straight to you sooner or later, be careful.

Oh, that ol' bollocks theory, right there with 'karma' and the like. It takes special naivety (or ignorance) to believe that; most of the time, people get off scot free. It's the way of the world.

But by all means, waste time pleading with randoms. Try farting in the wind, too, that works about as well.

What you do today with your hot head of " had enough" will come back straight to you sooner or later, be careful.

Didn't take long for this one to come out.

Do you honestly think your pleadings are going to be taken any notice of, do you think many really care what you think?

To be brutally honest, I couldn't give a toss if people stay home and say it's for "the greater good" or go and sit in their thousands on a beach, I really have no interest in them.

Define staying at home if you can though. Is work acceptable? School? Supermarket shop? Non essential shop? Visiting a friend? Trip to the beach or on a walk further afield with a picnic?

I'm mostly at home because I've got nowhere else to go. I take my eldest to school during the week and from there I either come straight home, detour via a shop or go further afield to take the toddler for a change of scenery.

I have only been to a non essential shop once because I haven't had any other reason to go. I could have stayed at home instead of going shopping but there was stuff I wanted, it's open and allowed so of course I went. I've left the house to visit my friend because I wanted the company, I could have stayed at home and been even more miserable I suppose.

I haven't been to a rave, a protest, a riot or even on a crowded beach. Those things don't interest me at all but I can not and will not stay at home when I could be out living some kind of life.

There will always be people causing damage, littering everywhere and being a public nuisance regardless of lockdown. Just like there will always be murderers despite it being illegal to murder someone.

mightbealittlebitmad - it cannot be defined, and that is the problem.

The government decided to reopen the pubs, and lots of people as you'll see in this thread, assume every thing is back to normal. Is the slippery road that is the problem.

Someone has a mental illness and must go out fo a walk, do it if you can do safely. The less people in the road, the easier would be for the ones that must be out to do so safely. Everyone goes out at the same time and is not safe for anyone.

In contrast, if you can work from home and you are absolutely fine, but you decide you are going to crowd the shops for entertainment, not a good idea. The people crowding the beach are not the ones desperate to earn money to feed their children, are they?

The government message has been incredibly muddled, and people that keep saying is a personal choice just does not understand disease transmission. It has nothing to do with your chance of dying. Increasing the percentage of the population that is off sick will affect children's education, economy, etc.

Comparing the risk of transmitting a disease with driving is quite silly. The chances of a car accident are small, and an individual can access that risk and make a choice, but their decision will not lead to an epidemics of car crashes. a person choosing to not use masks, to congegate with many unecessary is increasing the spread of virus that will afeect people that did not make the choice of having a risky behaviour.

The best way to save the economy, our children's long term being, etc, is to think about what is the best for our community.

Someone has a mental illness and must go out fo a walk, do it if you can do safely

You don't get to tell people what they can and cannot do.