people, please, stay home if you can

[Lua]

Most places that have eased lockdown measures, are seeing an increase in the number of cases. So there is no way around it (at least in the short-term), live a "normal life" and increase the risk for everyone (there are no "personal risk" in a pandemic).

I see a lot of people in mumsnet saying that we suffer too much to save the lives of 80 year olds. While I find this cold assessment horrible on its own, there are so many case of under 60s suffering badly. This is a harrowing picture of 63 year old woman:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/25/from-cold-to-coma-to-homecoming-one-womans-100-days-of-coronavirus

Sure, the risk is low. Sure, we deal with risks all the time. But we also try to mitigate risks all the time. We use seat belts, and we look before we cross the road, we use helmets, etc There are many reasons why someone needs to go into work, and those are understandable. But do people "need" to go to raves, beaches, cinemas? do we really need to go into shops and buy a new summer outfit?

Life needs to be different, and we need to find new ways to make our economy tick. Lots of opportunities in new fields. Lets support each other and look for new ways to make the world go around.

@Teateaandmoretea

The people on the beach were not observing social distancing

So were you there too or are you basing this on pictures in the daily mail?

Believe it or not there are other news outlets apart from the Daily Mail. Do you think all of the newspapers, plus the TV channels plus the police and Dorset council have all got together in some grand conspiracy?

Social distancing is being enforced by the workers in my local supermarket

And they are trying to here but there are too many people not following it and it's impossible to enforce. When I'm back at work how, exactly, do I stop customers from coming right up to me?

Yeah but they all use a wide angled lense to wind people up.

How exactly do the vulnerable keep themselves safe from all of the people sticking two fingers up to the rules?

You can say that about all of us though, not just those shielding.
How do we keep ourselves safe from all the idiots who have been gathering together in gardens/houses since the beginning of lockdown and ignoring rules etc?
The thing is you can't. You (general you) can only do yourself and your own risk assessment/using of common sense.
It's either that or hide away forever and that's just not doable.
I'm another on who is curious to what you'd actually suggest.

People don't have to stay at home 'as much as possible', nor are they going to do so.

But that is the advice from government.

But that is the advice from government

I'm not sure why the government is allowing pubs, restaurants and other 'non-essential' facilities to reopen if we're supposed to stay at home 'as much as possible'. It's summer. People are going to be out and about, as well they might considering we've been cooped up for months. This is going to happen, whether you like it or not. Up to you how you deal with it.

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

How exactly do the vulnerable keep themselves safe from all of the people sticking two fingers up to the rules?

You can say that about all of us though, not just those shielding.
How do we keep ourselves safe from all the idiots who have been gathering together in gardens/houses since the beginning of lockdown and ignoring rules etc?
The thing is you can't. You (general you) can only do yourself and your own risk assessment/using of common sense.
It's either that or hide away forever and that's just not doable.
I'm another on who is curious to what you'd actually suggest.

So, how do we do our own risk assessment, use common sense then against those very people that you describe ie the ones who have been breaking the rules?

I don't want to hide away forever. I want to be able to see my children and my parents. I want to go back to work.

I'll put up with restrictions on everything else if I can just have some limited interactions with other people but because so many others appear to be determined to stick 2 fingers up and refuse to follow the relaxed rules that we now have I'm going to have to face up to either isolating myself from everyone or accepting that i could catch this and if I do, become seriously ill or die, because others want to insist on having illegal raves or crowding together on the beach or running to the pubs the second they open.

But that is the advice from government

If that was the advice, why would they allow non essential shops, restaurants, pubs and cinemas to reopen? Because staying home ‘as much as possible’ would mean not utilising any of these facilities, wouldn’t it? The government are not only expecting, but hoping people will go out and start spending money in these places, as they can’t afford to subsidise them any longer.
Staying home as much as possible is directly at odds with that.
And I don’t know how social distancing is enforced in supermarkets but I do know ours is managing it.

@IcedPurple

But that is the advice from government

I'm not sure why the government is allowing pubs, restaurants and other 'non-essential' facilities to reopen if we're supposed to stay at home 'as much as possible'. It's summer. People are going to be out and about, as well they might considering we've been cooped up for months. This is going to happen, whether you like it or not. Up to you how you deal with it.

Well, let's just hope we're not back here in six weeks time discussing the increase in cases and the terrible effects happening to the economy and everyone's mental health then.

Perhaps everyone will think there night in the pub or trip to Bournemouth beach is worth it though.

because others want to insist on having illegal raves or crowding together on the beach or running to the pubs the second they open

What percentage of the population do you actually think are doing these things? No one I know has been to an illegal rave. No one I know has been to a beach (I live as far away from the as you can get in the UK). We have no idea how many people will ‘run’ to pubs as they’re not open yet, but if people do then they’re acting completely within government guidance.

or running to the pubs the second they open

Since you seem obsessed with the roolz, then you must know that people are allowed to run to pubs the second they open, though they may not be allowed inside if the pub is too crowded to allow social distancing.

You really do want people to sit at home all summer just so your already tiny risk of catching Covid be reduced further, don't you? Sounds very selfish.

The government are not only expecting, but hoping people will go out and start spending money in these places, as they can’t afford to subsidise them any longer.

And I wonder what their plans are for the potential second peak caused by their decisions?

Personally I can't see us being able to lockdown again so then what? Will we be like Italy and no one over 55 or 60 will get a hospital bed because there won't be enough staff to care for them?

Op are you suggesting people give up they’d jobs?
And live on wgat exactly?

You really do want people to sit at home all summer just so your already tiny risk of catching Covid be reduced further, don't you? Sounds very selfish.

Really? I'm selfish? I'm not the one saying that I've had enough and I'm not staying home for a minute longer just to protect people who probably would have died soon anyway. Or that my right to go to the shop, pub, beach on holiday is more important than someone else's right to be able to safely go for a walk or to see a family member when they haven't seen anyone for months. That's selfish. To put my desire for enjoyment above someone else's life - that's selfish.

Op are you suggesting people give up they’d jobs?
And live on wgat exactly?

And a lot of the economy actually requires customers to visit.....

To put my desire for enjoyment above someone else's life - that's selfish.

To expect everyone else to stay in until we reach 100% safety (which may be never) that’s also selfish

@Teateaandmoretea

To put my desire for enjoyment above someone else's life - that's selfish.

To expect everyone else to stay in until we reach 100% safety (which may be never) that’s also selfish

Good thing I've not said that then.

And I wonder what their plans are for the potential second peak caused by their decisions?

I have no idea, maybe write to them and ask?

My point was that people are following government advice. Going to non essential shops is permitted. Going to pubs when they open is permitted. Going to beaches is permitted. So if you want everyone to follow a different set of rules to those imposed by the government, then where do we find them?

Really? I'm selfish? I'm not the one saying that I've had enough and I'm not staying home for a minute longer just to protect people who probably would have died soon anyway. Or that my right to go to the shop, pub, beach on holiday is more important than someone else's right to be able to safely go for a walk or to see a family member when they haven't seen anyone for months. That's selfish. To put my desire for enjoyment above someone else's life - that's selfish

Ah OK. We're getting to the crux of things now I feel.

According to the roolz you were referring to just a few posts ago, people are allowed - or very soon will be - "to go to the shop, pub, beach on holiday". And that's a good thing as the country will be broke if they don't.

But that's not good enough for you, is it? You're not really about 'the rules'. You want people to shut themselves up indefinitely so that your already minimal chance of catching Covid be minimised still further.

So it's all about you. Glad we got that straight.

But what are people meant to do who have a business that can’t accommodate social distancing?
Is it just too bad?

Good thing I've not said that then.

Well you still haven’t actually said what you want....

The thing is, Hooves, you, just like everyone else, have to do your own risk assessment. The rules are going, being replaced with guidelines of how to behave in various situations as appropriate. (Ie as deemed appropriate by each person in the situation.) No one else can tell you what you should do because each person is coming from a different situation and has a different attitude to risk/sickness/death.

You have to assess whether you prefer to go out into the world, aware that Covid-19 is around, just as all sorts of other diseases that can make you ill, specially if you have underlying conditions, are around as they were this time last year. Covid isn't unique, it's just one more.

Or you can choose to hide away, asking other people to take the risk that you find unacceptable to keep you provided with the goods and services you require in your life. You can stay away from your family. You can stay away from work and hope that someone will provide you with financial support.

You can also choose to take some middle path, maybe mostly staying in but going out for things you really, really want.

If you go out at all you will encounter people who are making different decisions. Each of us decides what works in our circumstances. You have to bear that in mind when making your own decisions.

But it's your choice. Just as how everyone else perceives and responds to the risk is theirs. Nobody is telling you how to live and you don't have the right to tell anyone else. You can ask if people will bear your issues in mind, but they may feel that their needs over-ride yours just as you may feel yours over-ride theirs.

I'm furious that both my ds's aren't back at school. But am I staying home now? No. I've stuck to the rules. But no longer.

I can't see the spike they keep promising.

You can't see the spike?
look to Europe, local outbreaks already leading to lockdowns, and they are in a better state that we are.

It's not an instant effect , it will take between 2 and 4 weeks from any change to see anything, and it may be three months away. But it will come, I just hope it's more a ripple than a spike

Don't complain when things shut again.

Like is already happening on another thread.

@Teateaandmoretea

Good thing I've not said that then.

Well you still haven’t actually said what you want....

Yes I did. I listed the things that I want.

You really do want people to sit at home all summer just so your already tiny risk of catching Covid be reduced further, don't you? Sounds very selfish

Really? I'm selfish?

Ah.
That's telling - no rebuttal then?
You can't seriously expect everyone to stay indoors forever.
If they're sticking to the rules "they're doing nothing wrong!

So, how do we do our own risk assessment, use common sense then against those very people that you describe ie the ones who have been breaking the rules?
As I said, common bloody sense.
We risk assess ourselves, what is realistic for our own situations, we can't control everyone else's behaviour however much some want to,
Do we seriously have to be spoon fed everything?!