people, please, stay home if you can

[Lua]

Most places that have eased lockdown measures, are seeing an increase in the number of cases. So there is no way around it (at least in the short-term), live a "normal life" and increase the risk for everyone (there are no "personal risk" in a pandemic).

I see a lot of people in mumsnet saying that we suffer too much to save the lives of 80 year olds. While I find this cold assessment horrible on its own, there are so many case of under 60s suffering badly. This is a harrowing picture of 63 year old woman:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/25/from-cold-to-coma-to-homecoming-one-womans-100-days-of-coronavirus

Sure, the risk is low. Sure, we deal with risks all the time. But we also try to mitigate risks all the time. We use seat belts, and we look before we cross the road, we use helmets, etc There are many reasons why someone needs to go into work, and those are understandable. But do people "need" to go to raves, beaches, cinemas? do we really need to go into shops and buy a new summer outfit?

Life needs to be different, and we need to find new ways to make our economy tick. Lots of opportunities in new fields. Lets support each other and look for new ways to make the world go around.

It is interesting that so many people feel accused

Not accused at all. I know full well that I am taking reasonable precautions, despite buying non essential plastic tat (rubber rings for the paddling pool) today.
Fed up of being scolded by preachy people who want to not only invent their own ‘rules’, but also impose them on others? Most definitely.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras so what do you actually suggest 🤷🏻‍♀️

@saltycat

Respect is not a class thing is It?

It applies to societal norms. I too hate sand and heat and crowds. But I heard that baby powder or similar works miracles to leave you sand free following a stint on the beach.

I didn’t say respect was a class thing. I said bemoaning the crowds gathering on beaches is generally a class thing, especially when following it with ‘i bet they’re missing Benidorm or shagaluf’. It’s evident in so many posts on here. There were huge queues outside Selfridges and Waterstones when non essential shops were permitted to open. They weren’t shown on the news, or slagged off on here though were they? It was all about Ikea and Primark. Or the queues for McDonald’s. It was deemed fine on here to exercise on park benches, but not eat crisps on them. Because eating in public is lower class. Especially crisps. Apparently a granola bar was acceptable. It’s an all pervading attitude on Mumsnet, and it has increased since lockdown. People should be enjoying pottering in their garden and doing puzzles, not buying bikinis.

not buying bikinis

Particularly from Primark 😱.

Interestingly I’ve been to Primark there was no queue and it was perfectly socially distant. The virus probably prefers cheap shops though 🤔

Hearhoovesthinkzebras last week your complaint was that if the number of cases in the community was as low as the government are claiming, why was it safe for non shielders to go out but not those shielding? Multiple explanations about risk being possibility vs likely outcome didn’t cut it. The government must be lying.
Now the government are saying that as the incidence is so low that it is safe for shielders to go out, that still isn’t acceptable.
What do you want us to do? Please just tell us.

If people in the future want to understand the madness of Brexit, really all they will need to do is look at the way the British government and general public responded to the virus. A powerful combination of arrogance, complacency, idiocy and selfishness.

The virus probably prefers cheap shops though.

The virus has a moral compass. It is more likely to attack those buying bikinis in cheap shops than those buying books from a small independent.

@Cam77 so presumably that’s a go at anyone who goes shopping at Primark? 🙄

[quote Teateaandmoretea]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras so what do you actually suggest 🤷🏻‍♀️[/quote]
I'm asking a question of the people basically saying "you do you, but I'll do what I want".

How exactly do the vulnerable keep themselves safe from all of the people sticking two fingers up to the rules?

How exactly do the vulnerable keep themselves safe from all of the people sticking two fingers up to the rules?

What like those on beaches and in Primark? They aren’t breaking the rules

You do realise though that the people saying they’ll do what they want generally mean that they’ll go shopping in a safe, socially distanced way (you have to, as the shop enforces it), and go to beaches while maintaining their distance from others, for example? Ie following the guidelines set out by the government? So are you asking them to follow a different set of rules? Can you write them down for us?

@Drivingdownthe101

You do realise though that the people saying they’ll do what they want generally mean that they’ll go shopping in a safe, socially distanced way (you have to, as the shop enforces it), and go to beaches while maintaining their distance from others, for example? Ie following the guidelines set out by the government? So are you asking them to follow a different set of rules? Can you write them down for us?

Or self publish them on kindle, I'm way more likely to read it if I can download it.....

People on Bournemouth beach clearly not following the guidelines set out by the government @Drivingdownthe101

@Drivingdownthe101

Hearhoovesthinkzebras last week your complaint was that if the number of cases in the community was as low as the government are claiming, why was it safe for non shielders to go out but not those shielding? Multiple explanations about risk being possibility vs likely outcome didn’t cut it. The government must be lying. Now the government are saying that as the incidence is so low that it is safe for shielders to go out, that still isn’t acceptable. What do you want us to do? Please just tell us.

I want to know what people mean when they say the vulnerable need to do their own risk assessment and take their own precautions.

What does this look like? How does it work exactly? The idiots who are flocking to beaches or breaking rules by visiting all and sundry or having parties aren't walking round with signs on. How do I know who they are in order to stay well away? How does my dh know if he's about to go into their house? How does my son know if he's got a child of these families in his class?

The government have told everyone what they need to do and why because this can flare back up again.

Shielders got new letters this week. After 1st August shielding will be paused (interesting turn of phrase there) and we can go back to work if it's Covid secure and we maintain strict social distancing because we are still at risk of being seriously ill if we catch it. We are also told to stay at home as much as possible, so we certainly haven't been told to get back out there and get back to normal.

No I refuse to hide under the covers any more than what we have all been made to do.
This virus isn't going anywhere we can't be expected to hide indoors for ever.
I miss my family so much, both me and my DH and DCs have all missed seeing family and friends.
Yes we got to spend more time together and do activities together but it's been tough.

My DS is starting back in nursery for one day a week and I feel that will do him the world of good.

Of course we all have the fear of what if and that's the trouble with this virus none of us know if we could get it and if we did would it kill us.
I have that fear and worry for my DCs more than I do about myself but at same time I don't want to have them grow up living in fear or being kept away from things because I'm scared of the unknown

What like those on beaches and in Primark? They aren’t breaking the rules

The people on the beach were not observing social distancing. I don't know about Primark because I've not been and don't know anyone who has. I do know many people who work in a supermarket though and customers aren't following SD in there.

How exactly do the vulnerable keep themselves safe from all of the people sticking two fingers up to the rules?

The chances of catching the virus in the community are now very low. That is true whether or not you are 'shielding'.

Also, what 'rules' is anyone here suggesting should be broken? If you yourself don't feel safe going out while others try to return to some sort of normal life while still acting within the guidelines, then that's your choice. But like others here, I'm somewhat puzzled as to what exactly you want everyone to do?

The people on the beach were not observing social distancing

So were you there too or are you basing this on pictures in the daily mail?

I do know many people who work in a supermarket though and customers aren't following SD in there

Social distancing is being enforced by the workers in my local supermarket.

Presumably op has no money worry...

@IcedPurple

How exactly do the vulnerable keep themselves safe from all of the people sticking two fingers up to the rules?

The chances of catching the virus in the community are now very low. That is true whether or not you are 'shielding'.

Also, what 'rules' is anyone here suggesting should be broken? If you yourself don't feel safe going out while others try to return to some sort of normal life while still acting within the guidelines, then that's your choice. But like others here, I'm somewhat puzzled as to what exactly you want everyone to do?

We still have about 1000 cases per day, that they know about.

As for staying at home, yes, people shielding are still meant to be staying at home other than one walk per day.

What do I want people to do? Stick to the rules. Stay home as much as possible, maintain SD which is 2 metres unless not possible and then 1 metre + with mitigating measures, isolate as per rules, wear masks on public transport, not meet up with people when it isn't permitted.

Following the rules keeps things as safe as is possible for everyone, while trying to get life going again but it seems so many only want to think of themselves.

I want to know what people mean when they say the vulnerable need to do their own risk assessment and take their own precautions

I would have thought it quite obvious what it means. As adults we do risk assessments almost every day, even if it's something as seemingly trivial as calculating if I can make it across the road before that car comes and knocks me down.

Do you want a life of zero risk? And do you expect the rest of society to accommodate you in that?

What do I want people to do? Stick to the rules. Stay home as much as possible, maintain SD which is 2 metres unless not possible and then 1 metre + with mitigating measures, isolate as per rules, wear masks on public transport, not meet up with people when it isn't permitted

People don't have to stay at home 'as much as possible', nor are they going to do so.

You may do so however.

@IcedPurple
Do you want a life of zero risk? And do you expect the rest of society to accommodate you in that?

Oooo me, me! I know the answer!!!

🙋‍♀️🙋‍♀️

Again with the ludicrously oversimplified and polarised discussion.

According to this thread, we either need to stay home forevermore (not viable), or immediately rush out and carry on as normal (not viable).

We can not continue in lockdown with everything closed. We are facing the biggest global economic calamity in hundreds of years. What we ought be doing is emerging from the lockdown and attempting to mitigate the risks.

And yes, we should be mitigating the risks, because carrying on as normal can’t save us from the financial hole we’re in anyway.

The central banks balance sheets have already been inflated with trillions in money creation. Our governments have already borrowed and spent billions. Bankrupt companies have already been bailed out and their stock is already at all time highs despite the fact they will never do anything but lose money.

Running out to the local department store and ignoring the 2/1 metre rule can’t possibly undo any of that. So we might as well do what we can to reduce the risk.

I used to live in a Brighton which has a massive stretch of beach (4 or 5 miles easily). When everyone comes, they all cluster together on the same 500 metre stretch.

Under the circumstances, do you think any of the visitors have adjusted their behaviour in order to mitigate the risk? Have they bollocks.

They’ve clustered together in the same tiny stretch of beach they always do, and proceed to have illegal barbecues and leave tonnes and tonnes of rubbish, as they also always do.

That’s what pisses me off. As far as I can see the risk would be completely mitigated if people simple would use the space available.

But they won’t. Because they couldn’t give toss.