people, please, stay home if you can

[Lua]

Most places that have eased lockdown measures, are seeing an increase in the number of cases. So there is no way around it (at least in the short-term), live a "normal life" and increase the risk for everyone (there are no "personal risk" in a pandemic).

I see a lot of people in mumsnet saying that we suffer too much to save the lives of 80 year olds. While I find this cold assessment horrible on its own, there are so many case of under 60s suffering badly. This is a harrowing picture of 63 year old woman:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/25/from-cold-to-coma-to-homecoming-one-womans-100-days-of-coronavirus

Sure, the risk is low. Sure, we deal with risks all the time. But we also try to mitigate risks all the time. We use seat belts, and we look before we cross the road, we use helmets, etc There are many reasons why someone needs to go into work, and those are understandable. But do people "need" to go to raves, beaches, cinemas? do we really need to go into shops and buy a new summer outfit?

Life needs to be different, and we need to find new ways to make our economy tick. Lots of opportunities in new fields. Lets support each other and look for new ways to make the world go around.

Why do people think is going to be different here?

I don't -I'm under no illusion that everything's fine and dandy already, and yes it is possible we could go into lockdown again.
Idiots are gonna idiot whatever though.
What do you suggest the rest of us, who are sticking to the guidelines but still managing to get out and about every now and again are to do though?
You can't leave everyone locked up forever, it has to move on eventually.
I don't see the point in "stay at home selfish fucker!" attitudes though, as people who don't give a shit will never give one however much you tell them they're being dickheads.
I'll just keep on doing me (within guidelines) and that's all anyone can do.
Other way lies madness imo

No chance. I've been out and about for the whole lockdown, keeping things going for those of you staying at home. My team at work is drowning. I'm also trying to home educate.

I cannot continue like this, I am back in a deep dark pit of anxiety and am as close to suicidal as I've ever been. You cannot keep asking us to carry on damaging our mental health. It took me three years to climb out before, and less than 6 weeks to be dumped straight back in.

Never again.

@Drivingdownthe101 your comment reminded me of an episode of Peep Show "it was a picnic! There was 3 flavours of crisps!". (pointless analogy if people haven't seen peep show!

Maybe we'll have a second wave too? It's too hard to say whether other worried countries are having a small blip or will have a full on wave.

The UK started getting cases at a different time to China, Germany Etc so we have the luxury of seeing what happens there first. Maybe it's not possible to prevent future rises and multiple waves are a part of surviving pandemics ? (I'm not an expert obviously)

Whatever happens I think that there will be a lot of finger pointing at other people. People who went to protests will blame the beach goers, the beach goers will blame the people in pubs etc Meanwhile the government will get away with being crap while we blame everybody but them.

I think the latest lifting of restrictions is far too much (pubs ffs)but other stuff like playgrounds should have opened sooner. Hopefully people will be responsible but I'm expecting lots of pics of drunk people in pubs next week with the Wetherspoons boss bigging up BJ

@lua as long as their fees reduced for no face to face contact.. And you say hire more teachers. They need to be trained first... At university. You cannot learn to be a teacher online.

Lemonade -

I never suggested people shoudl be prisioners on their home. The problem is the large number of people as you can see in the response to my message that think this is all over, and there is no reason to change their life anymore.

Life is changed. Is about how to find the best way to move forward. If you can go out of your house and be 2 meter apart from people safely, great. But I am finding much harder to go out in the last days for a walk with everyone just acting like they do not need to give anyone space.

Lets face it the government's decision to reduce the distance to 1m +, had nothing to do with evidence. The best way for our children to go back to some kind of normalcy is for everyone to be very careful.

Children do not need education at the expense of the health of those who work in schools. What fucking planet are you on. We have to learn to live along side this virus and the others which will come along in the future. You can hide away for ever if you want too, but in the real world children have to have a proper in school education. Adults have to go to work so they can feed and house their families, not to mention to pay tax so we can repay the billions the government has borrowed so far.

If you really think the NHS will be able to function if no one has a education to train as nurses and doctors.

As much as I feel sorry for those families that have lost some one to Covid, I also feel sorry for those families who lost family members because the NHS is doing nothing for anyone who hasn't got Covid. These are the hidden victims that no one is talking about.

Education is as important as the NHS. Schools didn’t close to prevent kids and teachers getting it per se but to break chains of transmission

OP - university is more than academics. It's often the first time young people live without parents so they need to balance socialising with looking after themselves. It's a shame that many are losing out as they've moved home temporarily.

Yes I think we should stay at home until the economy has tanked, more jobs are lost and we all feel suicidally depressed. Better that than a virus that is affecting barely anyone

What I don't get from the 'open everything at all costs' frame of mind is the consideration of the consequences of a second serious spike.

If that happens, (potentially very) ill people wont be able to go wild in the aisles, work hard to support businesses, teach etc etc. So the economy suffers a double whammy and the efforts initial lockdown/ furlough etc were undermined by badly managed easing.

We were told repeatedly that a decent track and trace system was the safe way forward. The BMA are warning of a second wave.

The virus hasn't gone away because people have had enough of the situation.

yes FizzFan! it is all about breaking the chains of transmission. That is why each person's decision impact everyone else.

Current estimates is 1 in 7000 people have the virus. Seems pretty low, but think about if your kid goes to a large high school(2000 kids going through 20 bathrroms in one day), what are the chances when they go visit grandad, they will challenge their life?

@Lua

wow.

In response to those that ask about alternative ways to tick the economy...

There is a clear need to develop better tracking app that also preserve privacy. Lots of jobs in that.

Repurposing roads for more bike traffic.

Developing bettetr ways to process meat

Hiring more teachers

Developing online curricula

Just a few ideas.

Our culture of buying plastic tat, and eating our way to diabetes ought to have the days counted anyway. Those that adjust now, will be in a better position.

Don’t be daft. If someone has let’s say just lost their job as a ground handler at Heathrow they’re not going to be able to walk into these jobs.

Repurposing roads would be urban or town planning, that job already exists, unless you mean the actual construction, but there are already trained construction workers. Developing better ways of processing meat? That’s a probably food technologist, again a job which already exists and requires a degree. Hiring teachers? Do you mean retrain as a teacher? Fair enough, that’s a possibility except you aren’t going to get paid a full wage to train so no good if you’re dependent on that full wage, plus training as a teacher needs a certain level of qualifications to start with. If you’ve got a bit of capital behind you and time to retrain and are have the academic ability to retrain then great. Developing online curriculum? Only works if you have knowledge of a specific subject, possibly an area already qualified teachers could go into...and round we go.

I understand your concerns OP, the scenes from Bournemouth beach have made me wonder if people have lost their minds during the lockdown. It's their choice to put themselves into a horribly overcrowded situation, but I think it's bound to cause infection rates to rise. On the plus side maybe it's better to have the second wave during the summer, rather than have it overlap with the flu season next winter. The chances of a vaccine being available before winter are remote, and we can't continue lockdown for months longer, while we wait for the vaccine.

All we can do is mitigate the risks as we think best, and leave others to take their chances, even if they seem a bit reckless. In some ways YABU, but I share your concerns.

Without education we don't have the next generation of healthcare workers etc

I don't blame the government for shutting schools in March because the science was unknown but it's unacceptable that y10 and y12 weren't sent back full time on 1st June. There would have to be adjustments like packed lunch only or staggering times students arrive and leave but these 2 years have been properly shafted by Williamson. Does he even know that secondary schools exist? He is so focused on primary because of economics but arguably teens need schools and friends more than primary school kids who at least like hanging out with their parents

[quote Lua]@Devlesko-

100% agree with you.

It is scary to see how little people understand what is going on. Germany is already considering going back into lockdown. China has to go back. Things are getting worst in the USA. Why do people think is going to be different here?[/quote]
GERMANY is not considering going back into lockdown. They have experienced some local outbreaks and are dealing with them at a local level. They have locked down one area for a week (for now) And it WILL happen here. No one expects us to be different in that regards I’m sure. That is a very different thing to a whole country locking down for months again.

Frankly it’s very patronising to say people don’t understand what’s going on. People will look at the evidence and make their own judgements. Just because they’re different from yours doesn’t make them wrong or incapable of understanding. I watch the news, read the articles, try and understand the numbers and try my best to manage some of the scientific papers. I would consider myself a reasonably well informed lay person. I have come to a different conclusion to you.

But they’ll have been out of school 5 months @Lua. The schools were a lot more dangerous in March than they will be now. If it was fine for teachers to be in then, it must be now. The aim of the lockdown was to break the chains of transmission to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed. It wasn’t. Job done, Obviously things can’t just spring back 100% as before but they do need to open up!

You missed my point @Quarantimespringclean, which is that the generation that went through the Blitz went through something horrific, and they gritted their teeth, "kept calm and carried on" so to speak. I'm sick to death of people moaning about their mental health and being unable to cope with just staying in their own homes, not in any danger, and with all the luxuries of modern life around them to occupy themselves. There is a marked lack of substance in someone who finds that too much to handle. If being asked to do nothing in comfort is too much for them, what the hell would this country be like if these people were asked to do something difficult and dangerous?!

Developing bettetr ways to process meat

One of the scientists explained that it's not the meat processing that transmits the virus per se, its employees taking a break in a small area together or arriving and leaving at the same time that creates mini outbreaks.

I agree to a certain extent but now the risks of remaining in lockdown outweigh the benefits of it. Financial and social harm will also cause deaths if we don't move forward along with nhs services which have been postponed such as cancer screening services.

Children don't even need schools for education anyway, otherwise so many parents wouldn't choose to h.ed and school would be compulsory.
Children's education is compulsory.
Schools are great for childcare and general education, but not necessary if people's lives are at risk.

My husband and I have both worked throughout the lockdown in essential jobs that have kept what economy is left going. Things have changed hugely for my husband, a postal worker, who is delivering an eye-watering amount of online-purchased "stuff" right now. He thinks letters are dead. Email has won (as has Anazon). He doesn't see the re-opening of shops denying his workload, at all.

As for op's point about online schooling, sweet cheeses I hope not. My daughter has inherited our introvert personality and I rely on her school to help her find her confidence when meeting new people, forming relationships and speaking publicly. She needs to go to school. Her mental health and confidence has suffered. I want her to attend school full-time for her own good.

I have stayed away from my Ill father. I can't see him anyway, because I can only go by train and I'm being sensible and letting essential workers use them. I won't go anywhere outside London until it's safer. But I do go out. I see friends and I go to the shops and I visit family in their gardens.

I don't want more roads given over to bikes. If you've ever tried to get from Oval to Victoria in London by bus you know how long it takes because half the old road has been given over to cyclists and it's not used that much. No, I'm not taking up road cycling in London because it's flipping dangerous, even using the cycle ways. Pedestrians think they can use them too.

I agree with other posters: we are going to have to live with this virus. Where I live, the risk is incredibly low. Yes, I hate wearing a mask on the bus, yes, I hate washing my hands constantly, yes, I hate not being able to hug my best friend, it kills me, but it's what we do now. As long as we live our lives to the best we can, with caution, I cannot see why we cannot do more.

at the people calling the OP 'sanctimonious', this thread is full of some really pompous and self-absorbed people who are going to do just what they want.

Many of us carried on working, just getting on with things. It's not 'special' in any way, it's life.

OP definitely made an error posting but there's no need for the absolute tirade she's had. At least her post was polite even if it was a bit on the bossy side..

OP... people are selfish, they will always do what is best for them. That's how it is. Do the same, do what's right for you and never mind what other people are doing.

TibetanTerrier

I agree with every word of your last post.
Lack of substance is apparent on most of these threads.