Do you think things are opening too fast?

[onestepat]

My friend has just said she's not rushing into anything /going anywhere for the rest of the year.
Do you think Lockdown is over too fast ?

The doomsayers are out in force. Spouting their gloomy tales of spikes, waves and mysterious new variations of the illness. Then the economically illiterate come on and accuse Boris of putting the economy before lives not realising that what they’re proposing will result in more years of life lost and will impact generations. But as long as the mostly baby boomers with their pensions are protected from Covid then sod everyone else.

Think the speed is about right. Lots of people (like me and your friend) won’t be rushing out straightaway so they’ll be fewer people around than normal to start with. And people will be wearing face masks and being careful. If it transpires that infection rates start to rise again I’m sure new restrictions will be introduced.

The only way to find out how safe things are is to start lifting restrictions We can’t stay indoors forever. People can then make their own choices.

Making your own decisions is good. It bugs me it’s not the same for schooling but rest, fine.

@Tootletum

No. Not actually going anywhere though as I can't face all the bollocks queues and weird divide between people who seem to want to brush past me for kicks, and people who leap out of the way like they've been set on fire.

That is just exactly it!

No sign of a second wave whatsoever.
Exactly. And if peeps are mitherinh that their chiropodist snd man-who/comes-to -fix-the-dink are going to the pub )how very dare they!?) fix your own sink! The selfishness of some people (I am old, do everything for me, me, me) is disgusting

*Even if they don't go to pubs etc the carers, cleaners, doctors, dentists, chiropodist, bloke who comes to fix the sink or read the meter probably will have.

So "you don't have to go and risk infection if you don't want to" is nonsense isn't it? None of us can completely avoid other people.*

No, but you can't expect everyone to put their lives and livelihoods on hold just in case they might come into contact with more susceptible individuals.

I'm so relieved there's finally some signs of re-opening. Might be a few more months until we see any money but at least it's a glimmer of hope.

@Sandybval Are those businesses opening who need their staff to actually go into work rather than work from home because they cant irresponsible? Must be nice in your little bubble.

Did I say businesses that need staff to go in were being irresponsible? No. I didn't. I said my DH's workplace is being responsible. No need for such a prickly response. There are lots of workplaces being irresponsible and forcing employees to come in when it isn't necessary- a family member is in that position.

And also no need for snidey remarks about "must be nice in your bubble". Do you think I would choose to be pregnant in these conditions? Do you think I would choose for my DH to leave straight after the birth of our child, or for my child to not socialise with other children and other people for the first few months / year of its life?

@IcedPurple

You know the answer to that. Daft question

Not really.

You keep insisting that the latest measure are contradicted by The Science. Yet most of the world seems to think 1m is OK. So which version of The Science are you insisting on?

Why don't you Google? It isn't hard.

"What does the science say?

The simple answer is that the nearer you are to someone who is infected, the greater the risk of catching the virus.

The World Health Organization recommends keeping a distance of at least 1m.

Some countries have adopted this guidance, often because they also insist on people wearing masks.

But there are also regional variations inside countries.

For example, Germany's general guidance is to keep a distance of 1.5m, but it is more in some parts of the country

Spain also observes 1.5m, but in Catalonia, for example, this can be reduced at open-air events if masks are worn"

Full article here.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52522460

The simple answer is that the nearer you are to someone who is infected, the greater the risk of catching the virus.

Well yes, but life isn't 'simple'. If you want to keep things 'simple' then we'd all shut ourselves up until if and when a vaccine is available. In the real world, as I've said, The Science has to be balanced with other concens and priorities.

Most countries seem to be going with a 1m distancing, so it's hard to see how the latest measures are in contradiction of The Science, especially as 2m is still advised where possible.

Not at all I absolutely can’t wait I have booked all our summer holiday outings today !! It’s not mandatory however so if people want to stay home then that’s fine but we certainly won’t be, life has been on hold long enough!!

I feel quite nervous that lots of things seem to be opening at the same time.i remember Ireland had a 5 stage plan and that took until the end of August to gradually ease......but that's easy for me to say as I am not the owner of a pub, or SE hairdresser for example.
I think I will still be fairly cautious . DH is SE and I have been furloughed (and not given a return date yet) so we are on reduced income and dont have money to spend even if we did want to go out. I'm looking forward to having family over though (esp as we can stay outside if the weathers good)

Seriously - people are STILL saying ‘the govt is choosing the economy over lives!’ despite plenty of people painstakingly pointing out that the two things are entwined. No economy = no jobs = no money to pay for food or rent + no taxes for essential services like schools, police or NHS. Why is this so hard to understand?

It’s down to personal choice now. If you want to stay in then stay in. But if you do you should be grateful to the people out there keeping the economy alive and functioning because that’s enabling your personal choice.

Thing is “the science” is only one consideration. It’s not scientists jobs to consider things such as the economic impact of measures but the government has to.

The simple answer is that the nearer you are to someone who is infected, the greater the risk of catching the virus.

Yes but before lockdown that risk was 1 in 40. It’s now nearer 1 in 2700.

I've said all along though that is no direct choice between health and lives v economy. They are intertwined.
The same people that were criticising Boris for putting the economy above lives will probably have been here before, complaining how many people died due Tory austerity measures.
I am not a BJ fan and didnt vote Tory in the last 2 elections, but I can see that there isnt a simple lives v money choice. And how will the NHS be funded if everyone is locked indoors and the gov is paying 50% of the UK's wages?

No

i remember Ireland had a 5 stage plan and that took until the end of August to gradually ease

Ireland's 5 stage plan has been signficantly accellerated, and almost everything is now expected to reopen at the end of June.

I don't know. It all seems very unclear. I still have no idea when my employer - a provider of careers advice and adult education - will be allowed to reopen to the public.

I'm concerned that local lockdowns will disproportionately affect poor areas. And employers could be free to sack or penalise employees who are in lockdown zones.

@YouSetTheTone I totally agree. I can't understand why people can't see this.

I’m pregnant and an ICU nurse so always going to be completely over cautious on this front. However, I’m quite happy for things to open up as no one is forcing me into any pubs/restaurants/shops.. It just makes it easier for me to get a grocery delivery slot

No not at all. Think its about right.

The Government should be supporting business and make it safer for us to get out and about. Not financially but by methods to stop the spread of the virus.

The lack of track and trace in England is laughable if it were not so serious

The lack of inforamation re face masks is the same and not making this mandatory in public places will increast the risk in the UK.

All other countries that have less than 2m rule insist on face coverings and have a functioning track and trace.

We are just told to "be alert" and take greater risks than almost any other country because the Government have managed this situation so badly.

We do need to get out and about but without the extra risks that are being put on us.

Yes but before lockdown that risk was 1 in 40. It’s now nearer 1 in 2700. it’s 1 in 1700 not 2700.

I agree that the economy has to get back on track - it has to. However, people are acting like this is all over and it isn't. People around here don't give a shit about social distancing any more - you go into a supermarket and people think nothing of brushing past you, standing right next to you etc. They're all acting more or less 'normal'.

However, as I'm in a high risk group, I shall keep being a hermit for now. I have been doing shopping once a week when everyone was being extra careful. Now, I think I'll be ordering home delivery as I really can't risk catching it. Personally I think we're going to have a second wave, and it's going to be bad, as people don't seem to realise it's NOT over.