Do you think things are opening too fast?

[onestepat]

My friend has just said she's not rushing into anything /going anywhere for the rest of the year.
Do you think Lockdown is over too fast ?

@fessmess Bit dramatic. I understand you are worried. I've worked throughout lockdown on a ward with a few confirmed covid cases. Not huge as paediatrics. Considering the number of staff not many of us have caught it.

In late Feb/March we weren't fully in The correct PPE. Those guidelines took a while To get right and it was APRIL before we had guidance for ppe for any patient contact. Yet good hygiene and eventually ppe kept us safe with positive patients too.

How do you think the government will pay for public services is business aren't up and running and staff aren't working to pay taxes?

Lots worked through and have been fine. We may catch it but what else happens? We all stay home forever with no wages?

We have choices: you can choose not to work in a bar and try and get a 'safer' job. I have a choice to go to a pub. I'm actually not going straight away as I've a trip booked in the uk at the end of July and I'd rather not risk getting tracked/traced to isolate before then. That is my choice. But my choice is to go on holiday as it's been bloody stressful and I'm having a 4 day break!

@MarshaBradyo

Dom I do trust Whitty, not sure if you listened to briefing, but I found him cautious but right on balancing risks. It helped to hear him talk about what is happening.

2m is safer than 1m. Whitty said that at the start and that hasn't changed. I think they have the balance wrong but I hope I'm wrong - or the science is wrong. But I doubt it. We'll see.

Dom yes but he said 1m with mitigation is ok, so take mitigation seriously.

"Just" expert advisers? What a peculiar thing to say."Just" expert advisers? What a peculiar thing to say

It's not peculiar. SAGE members are experts in one particular area. Their role is to give advice, not to make decisions. That's the government's job, and they have to balance the scientific advice with other factors such as the economy.

Johnson promised that he would be guided by the science

"Guided by" doesn't mean 'dictated to by'. And where is the evidence that he is going against 'the science' here?

No I think it’s about right. I have been a bit confused over the order in which some things have been done, like opening golf courses before playgrounds. Would have preferred for gyms and swimming pools to open before pubs but it’s looking like that will be happening in a few weeks time.

@IcedPurple

"Just" expert advisers? What a peculiar thing to say."Just" expert advisers? What a peculiar thing to say

It's not peculiar. SAGE members are experts in one particular area. Their role is to give advice, not to make decisions. That's the government's job, and they have to balance the scientific advice with other factors such as the economy.

Johnson promised that he would be guided by the science

"Guided by" doesn't mean 'dictated to by'. And where is the evidence that he is going against 'the science' here?

If Johnson said the sky was blue I'd have to go out and check. He's utterly untrustworthy. He lies and lies.

Here's just one article. there are so many I'm not going to list them all.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/23/easing-several-lockdown-rules-at-once-could-boost-virus-say-uk-scientists

I haven't read anything from Independent SAGE yet, but Whitty and Vallance seemed tense about it.

I feel most sorry for the Shielded people who have to go back to work in a month, possibly in a risky workplace.

It's a complete crock to say that anyone who wants to can just stay home. If your told to go back to work rather than WFH you have to.

Probably but I really am past caring now.

Didn't Whitty say we'd have to stay at 2m fir the duration of the epidemic yonks ago?

Here's just one article. there are so many I'm not going to list them all

Well indeed, because given the volume of press coverage of Covid, you can find 'scientists' supporting just about any view.

Does any other European country insist on a 2 metre spacing?

I'm on maternity leave as baby due soon. I will not be going into shops or anywhere else I would imagine until the vaccine comes, and I'm aware that may be next Spring. My DH workplace are extremely responsible and will continue working from home until Dec at earliest. My new baby unfortunately won't be getting grandparent cuddles because I know that grandparents have not been fully distancing.

If others wish to go to shops, pubs etc that's good for them. No doubt the virus will circulate in those groups. But there are many who are more vulnerable and who wish to continue to protect themselves if possible, and if they are fortunate enough to have responsible employers / workplaces.

The thing is that the scientists don't have the burden of balancing other factors in the same way as those making the final decisions. In an ideal world from a scientific point of view it probably would be better if we shut ourselves away as much as possible and erred in the side of caution in terms of distances etc. But on balance with the damage to people's lives of losing their jobs, the economy being down the pan etc that needs to be taken into account too.

Public health scientist on LBC says yes early but on balance due to economy you have to. Those under 60 not at risk create economic activity, at risk be extra careful. I agree with that.

My DH workplace are extremely responsible

Not really, it's just that they have the means to allow people to work from home (as Boris is still encouraging where possible). Are those businesses opening who need their staff to actually go into work rather than work from home because they cant irresponsible? Must be nice in your little bubble.

Yep. Cummings and Johnson are using a lot of people as guinea pigs. Although a pre-school return summer second wave might not be a bad thing.
I'll carry on keeping my head down. not been to a pub in a decade anyway.

I worry for my parents and grandparents.

Even if they don't go to pubs etc the carers, cleaners, doctors, dentists, chiropodist, bloke who comes to fix the sink or read the meter probably will have.

So "you don't have to go and risk infection if you don't want to" is nonsense isn't it? None of us can completely avoid other people.

@IcedPurple

Here's just one article. there are so many I'm not going to list them all

Well indeed, because given the volume of press coverage of Covid, you can find 'scientists' supporting just about any view.

Does any other European country insist on a 2 metre spacing?

You know the answer to that. Daft question.

If France jumped off a cliff would you follow?

Just because they get it wrong doesn't mean we shouldn't do it right, like certain North American countries.

A lot of people seem to think 1m is 2m anyway. Reduce it to 1m and it will be totally ignored by some, as it is now.

Even at 1m+ all children cannot fit into classrooms as normal, so I'm not sure what's going to happen there. Given yet another of Johnson's empty promises.

Gyms and pools are tricky. Evidence from infection rates in choirs show that activities involving heavy, deep and projectional breathing can spread the virus really effectively.

I don't think the government has handled this particularly well, but I also don't think we can expect them to support people staying at home until the risk is close to zero. Life is risky, we have to take risks and depending on our health, age, job, hobbies etc etc all of have a different risk profile. To expect the government to protect everyone indefinitely isn't realistic. Just as they don't protect us from flu, cancer, drowning, road traffic accidents, sepsis etc etc.

Ahh I see the classic Mumsnet arguement ‘everyone’s breaking their rules’, ‘no-one distances’, ‘my family are meeting indoors’ ‘look at those idiots on the beach’, ‘how dare they do a socially distanced conga, they’ll all get Covid & die’ ‘children back at school is deadly’ .. AND YET, death rate & cases continue to trend downwards. Or at worst cases are flat. No sign of a second wave whatsoever.

So clearly people are majorly exaggerating when people say they know no-one sticking to the rules & community transmission is pretty low. OR, more people than we think are asymptomstic or get it so mildly they assume heyfever or similar..

You know the answer to that. Daft question

Not really.

You keep insisting that the latest measure are contradicted by The Science. Yet most of the world seems to think 1m is OK. So which version of The Science are you insisting on?

I'm not going to rush back to anything, and I'm lucky that I don't have to. Working from home until September, and can meet friends for drinks in the local park and buy stuff online if necessary. It's so warm I don't really want to be in stuffy shops or on the tube.
The 2m rule made sense to me, and I will stick to it where possible. If people want to go back to the pub or a restaurant that's up to them. The virus is still out there, and I don't want to get it.

I wonder if the new 1m rule will mean schools will go back sooner now?

Some people will rush out and take risks and others won't.
They have basically left it up to us throughout, just issuing guidelines.
It's good because those who are risk averse can continue to follow the guidelines, others can go back to work, pubs, cinemas and take their chance.

It's too fast for me.
But as others said you have a choice, either go to the pub shops etc etc... Or don't.

I think if you're going to open things, do it now - eg while restaurants can open front sections if they have that option, and can use gardens/patio/street, and it's easy to queue outside shops and attractions and they can ventilate naturally. That way people can use the services at a relatively low risk of infection, while levels are still quite low (and remember a lot of people still wfh and not using public transport)

They may all have to shut again once the weather turns, so far better to open now for 2-3 months than have them shut for so long that no business can possibly survive, and of course the vast majority of this is small businesses, as @Bol87 says. 99% of businesses in UK are small businesses, so this is not 'just about lining Big Business' pockets'.

I'm not personally going to rush into everywhere straight away as I think we shouldn't get too excited or used to it, but I will try to support some where they can operate mostly outdoors.

still too many cases! - people still need to be cautious - Covid19 has not gone away - be sensible people! - Giving people 1m rule is daft - they were doing this anyway! - you tell people 2m - they will stand 1m - you give people 1m - they will be standing next to you. Lockdown has been hard but not compared to how other countries have locked down their citizens - I think we have come off lightly to be honest.