Nightingale schools

[Crimples]

In the same way they knocked up all those hospitals in next to no time, why can’t they do the same with schools?
Genuine question, apologies if it’s has already been discussed

[quote Crimples]@ohthegoats not 60 no.
But most classes are around 30 are they not?[/quote]
But there are... rather a lot... of classes in the country and limited suitably sized spaces.

What’s the alternative though with shielded pupils? We keep all the other children isolated in solidarity until a vaccine? Shielded pupils and those living with someone shielded should have online tuition (either from shielded teachers from their school or a national scheme) and the right to go back to school in whatever year group they/their parents feel most appropriate when it is deemed safe enough. They should have priority admissions re secondary schools or universities. I’d even give their parents enhanced child benefit or carers allowance or something to reflect that they are prevented from accessing work due to childcare. I’d like to see local authorities open up some leisure facilities only available to shielded children and distanced to allow them some degree of mixing with other shielded children - perhaps music groups or sports sessions? But I also think children from low risk families should be allowed to return to school.

To maintain current social distancing we would need to (at least) double capacity. So the equivalent of 32770 schools, and 500000+ teachers.

People keep misunderstanding the scale of this.

Even with classes of 30 then that would only work for those children at the handy next door conference centre. The children in school will still be in bubbles of 15, so you still need extra teachers for those smaller classes.

I think that the best solution as we are so close to the end of term anyway is for everyone to work hard at keeping the infection rate low and so in September it will be at a minimal level and life can go back to 'normal' with minimal social distancing.

@Crimples

It’s a simple idea... but how would they actually work in practice? There were potentially a 10-20 thousand nightingale hospital patient places.... There are a 6.7m pupils.

[quote Crimples]@ohthegoats not 60 no.
But most classes are around 30 are they not?[/quote]
But each year group often has two or even three or four classes. You're not just looking at 30 pupils per year per school.

If you had have of each class in an alternative room, then you essentially need twice as many schools. There are around 32,800 schools in the UK. So you would be talking about adding the equivalent new space of another 32,800.

Even ignoring the huge cost of this, there wouldn’t be enough building materials or people to do the work at that scale.

My child's school has 104 teachers, and 1700 pupils, some 500 of whom use council provided double decker school buses to get to school. Taking account of teaching assistants, cleaners, cooks admin and support staff that is over 2000 people on site. How the hell they plan to make school "covid secure" is anyone's guess, but I'm pretty sure they can't magic up an extra 100 teachers and classrooms by September.

I think a solution in the interim would be to have outdoor classrooms built - so like the outdoor learning areas at say the zoo when they have school trips in. Basically a large tent/canopy.

Then have different year groups in on different days.

Take groups off site on trips to do outdoor activities.

Allow after school clubs to operate to provide childcare e.g. drama, sport, music - as long as social distancing is in place.

I'm a teacher & can see how being off school with endless online tasks is not good. I have 2 children & one loves it & the other has become hermit like & has sunk into what I would suspect mild depression.

I think the children need to be back in school even if it's part time or a couple of days a week.

I suspect that there were contingency plans for Nightingale hospitals, supplies of beds, equipment etc. Buildings earmarked etc.

So when the call came the plans were dusted off and put into action.

I doubt if there are such plans for schools. ( there is an argument that it would have been possible to produce such plans when schools were shut down in March.)

To set up such schools will need money, staff resources, transport.

Not all staff will be available/want to come in. My daughter has been working flat out either at home, in school with essential workers’s children or from last week teaching as normal. Not sure if she and her colleagues would be happy to work right through.

I’m a retired teacher - but would need to have my DBS updating as would 1000s of others. This would take ages - it can take ages at the best of times.

Local Authorities do not have the staff to organise in the way they used to thanks to austerity.

So it looks like children will be given vouchers - great - but there will the 1000s of tutors be found. But Boris can then say that he’s solved the problems and the teachers/LAs/unions stood in the way of what he wanted to do.

Converse - have you ever organised a school trip?

It's a massive task and takes tonnes of time organising risk assessments and permission slips, where would all the money for the coaches come from?

beawill yes I have organised loads of trips over the last 20 years in the classroom. Some local & others in Europe.

Yes they take loads of work - but I would for example be taking a trip in couple of weeks time so would have had loads to do organising that.

I'm talking about perhaps a trip to a park or open space. Nothing crazy - let them play rounders, take a picnic. If you're lucky enough to be near a forest/beach do some learning there. In primary school they are always in groups of 4-5 with a TA or parent helper anyway on a school trip.

Being outdoors appears to be low risk.

I can't see that Nightingale Schools would work, but I wonder about blended learning and Nightingale childcare.
So, in a primary school, for example, each class would be split into groups A and B
Group A attends school Monday/Tuesday and is given online/follow on/extension work for Wednesday/Thursday/Friday. On these days they can either work at home or, if parents have to be at work, they attend a Nightingale childcare centre where they are also in small bubbles and encouraged to social distance. Here they are helped to do the schoolwork they have been set, plus other holiday club type activities such as outdoor play, crafts etc.
Meanwhile in school, Wednesday is a deep cleaning day and time for staff to prepare lessons and online/remote learning tasks.
Group B attend lessons in school on Thursdays and Fridays and do their remote learning on Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday
You'd need to think about how the Nightingale childcare would cover the larger influx on Wednesday. Maybe every family gets the option of 2 days at a Nightingale and one day where they have to make other arrangements/work from home/arrange work patterns with other parent etc but with an additional day available for vulnerable children.
Obviously, this isn't as ideal as having full-time schooling but unless physical distancing is no longer needed, schools can not have all the children in at once.

This does get over some issues though. It doesn't need twice the number of teachers and it would be quicker to train staff in basic child care than in teaching.
Children would be taught ( and cared for ) in small groups so although they have less teaching time, they can have more individual help during lessons.
A wide range of activities could be available at the childcare centres. The centres could be of different sizes depending on accommodation available. They could use leisure centres and conference centres but also ( with adaptation) shut down pubs etc.
You could even have "paid for" add ons in the same centre such as a music lesson or a karate class etc, as long as social distancing was observed. Computers could be available for students who needed to complete work online as well as TA level support. It would need a heck of a lot of money thrown at it pretty quickly to make it work though.

beawill parents usually pay for coaches anyway. Pretty sure most would happily stump up £5/£10 for school day out - just to get them back in school.

Sorry converse -- had my secondary hat on

where would all the money for the coaches come from?

That’s not so much the issue... Even if money were no object, there simply aren’t enough coaches to deliver even socially distanced travel to existing schools, let along buses millions of pupils to nightingale facilities.

I'm confused about where these uber schools would be.

Let's say Birmingham, the largest LA, puts one up, does it take the hundreds of thousands? of primary/secondary children from across the city and plonk them there? Children from 40 miles away in the other direction?
And teachers travelling too?

Secondary students take 10 different subjects with 10 different teachers. How does that work please ?

In my scenario no, Hands off. Just because they have a 'Nightingale' nickname, doesn't mean they would be enormous childcare warehouses.
I'd invisage them being as local as possible, utilising whatever spare accommodation possible. It could be everything from village halls to larger conference spaces, disused retail space and pubs/ restaurants that have been closed.

Ideally the childcare centres would be as accessible and as local as schools are.

Secondary students could do alternate weeks with remote learning for the week they weren't at school.

Maybe we could get the army to help with transportation for students in more rural areas.

And, if there is less general commuting because people are working from home more, there may be spare vehicles and drivers from standard bus companies that could be involved with school/ childcare runs.

@EducatingArti

In my scenario no, Hands off. Just because they have a 'Nightingale' nickname, doesn't mean they would be enormous childcare warehouses. I'd invisage them being as local as possible, utilising whatever spare accommodation possible. It could be everything from village halls to larger conference spaces, disused retail space and pubs/ restaurants that have been closed.

I do think using other spaces would be an interesting idea, but organisers would have to bear in mind that children will need child-sized toilets, separate adult toilets, outdoor space, all tables/chairs/equipment transported there, be within a reasonable distance of the school, security during the day and overnight, at least two DBS-checked adults, a paediatric first aider on site... Many potential venues just don't have the right set-up to have classes in.

It's frustrating, that's for sure.

Crimples I've thought this and have had the same issues pointed out.
I do understand where your coming from though. When all you keep hearing is "this cant happen/that cant happen" you need to find your own way through. I'm not sure if temporary classrooms having even been given the time of day by the government.