Nightingale schools

[Crimples]

In the same way they knocked up all those hospitals in next to no time, why can’t they do the same with schools?
Genuine question, apologies if it’s has already been discussed

Why can't we use newly qualified teachers?

All the NQT's I know already have jobs.

NQTs are mentored when they first start teaching. We couldn't just throw them all into a "nightingale' school and tell them to get on with it

Mumneedswine You're right compromises by everyone is what's needed

Teachers are currently teaching pupils in class and also remote teaching those at home. SLTs in local schools are hand delivering food hampers to families on FSM, but also doing welfare checks. Many teachers have worked though half terms and Easter holidays. They have helped sort out classrooms to make them COVID safe. Think they have been quite flexible already.

I know newly qualified doctors and I know newly qualified teachers.

The doctors were over 5 1/2 years into a 6 year course. Their learning had significant hands on elements for the final 2 1/2 years, so they have missed out on some of this. They were given a break so that they would be ready to start work (which happened in June for most of them). They will be supervised throughout the beginning of their role, and will slowly gain more responsibility.

The teachers were a little over half way into a 1 year course. Their teaching load had just increased to 5 hours per week, so they have missed out on teaching most of the lessons that they would teach in their placements. They have since been learning remotely as best they can. No-one will be in the room with them when they start teaching in September, except possibly a TA, and they will be responsible for a class from the outset, for 80% of the week.

They're not comparable in any meaningful sense.

It is why there is such a big drop out rate with NQT's. They just get thrown into the deep end age 21.

My year 10 will be f### I gotta angry if she has to do History and French. She spent ages choosing her Options and is doing brilliantly in RS and Music.
If some random supply teacher starts going on about history or French she’ll be even more disenfranchised.

The secondary teachers I know are teaching their own subject online. If they are put with children doing other options it doesn't seem like very good use of their time as it will only be supervision.

I know one of my family members has an AS in Maths and she may have to dredge it up in case she needs to teach it. Not ideal.

I know of one newly qualified teacher who has decided to not take up her placement. I'm pretty sure there are thousands more. Many teachers who have had long and happy careers are now leaving the profession due to the abuse and the risk of covid. Literally no-one wants to teach atm.
We would need thousands of extra teachers, cleaners, dinner ladies, catering staff, janitors, office staff, accounts staff, salt staff etc..
We will be lucky if there is anyone left to run the "normal" schools in September.

The death rate in the UK today was 36. In three months time what will it be? Children will be back to school.

There is no need for this hysteria about creating some sort of national emergency school system. Missing a few months school is not the end of the world. I despair.

It is the Government that is coming up with a catch up plan (whatever that maybe)

To the supply/semi-retired poster who is willing to come back and teach, that's good to hear. I feel uncomfortable with the 'willing to do their bit' part though.
If retired teachers are willing to come back, fine, but I can't imagine many would. A lot of them would be at higher risk.
Supply teachers may choose to volunteer. Again that's fine, but they may not need/want to.
Neither group is under any obligation to come back, they have done 'their bit' already. It makes me think of the Daily Mail asking NHS staff, teachers and other key workers to be heroes/risk their health.

Making the comparison to th eNightingale hospitals, those hospitals were designed for single patients willing (?) to be there in order to get better.
The patients would be looked after By a team of dedicated specialists until better. I would also assume that, although giving consent to be there, the patients would not need to make many choices about their time inside.
However, a school would have a much different dynamic. To start with, some parents would not choose to send their child in, they may be very young and confused, or older children may not chose to attend.
There would also need to be move,ent around the building, specific areas for specifics subjects, break time, exercise time, etc etc
Semi conscious patients are a far more straightforward concept...

@Flinstones

Another thread where the teachers are not being very helpful in the discussion abut getting the children back to school. There will have to be lots of flexibility all round! Parents taking there own children to school, I'm sure they would rather that than they being home all the time. Why can't we use newly qualified teachers? Newly qualified doctors where used In hospitals.

Flexibility? Of course we've been flexible! I have spent half my time in lockdown teaching at a hub school I'd never been in before with a group of children ranging from Reception to Year 6, most of whom I've never met. I went in during my holidays so these kids had some childcare.

I have had to come up with new lesson ideas that can be done at home by a 6 year old offline with no resources. I've had to learn how to record lessons and share screens using technology I've never seen before. I've had to rearrange my classroom so that seats are 2m apart and now have to teach a bubble of children (not my class) aged 5-7 without letting them sit on the carpet or play with toys. Then in the evenings I have to come home and try to find ever-more inventive to engage my own pupils at home whose parents are struggling to get any home learning done. I'm on MN in the middle of the night because I couldn't sleep trying to think of other things I should have put on my website for parents.

No, I don't know how to get kids back into school while adhering to distancing guidelines. I can't really offer any suggestions because there is nothing that would not cost vast amounts of money, and working in education I know we won't get any. Not that anyone would listen to my suggestions anyway as the government are not in the habit of listening to teachers.

This:

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/14/who-cautions-against-further-lifting-lockdown-england

I said earlier in the thread I would love to go back to teaching.

Supply teachers are doing the job for all sorts of reasons. Some want flexibility due to their personal circumstances, some have moved to the area, some are looking for permanent work. None of the ones I know are ‘doddery’ as someone said in an earlier post and if they were that hopeless they wouldn’t get any work. I find the supply agencies very professional and they get feedback from the schools every day.

A lot of teachers retire early (I was 50 and my school closed.) All the staff were made redundant and many went on supply as it is difficult to get work in my city after a major reorganisation and staff cuts.

Is that an urban area? Supply teachers don't quite fit that mould in more 'remote' areas. There are very few in existence my way.

We have had four regular supply teachers at my school over the last year. Not used as cover as we don’t have the budget for that and cover has all been done by splitting classes or using a TA, but they have been used to job share with our part timers. Far from ideal for the part timers as they end up doing all planning/report writing etc for the class.

All of the supply teachers had left permanent teaching due to it making them ill. All have underlying health conditions which means they are unable to be in work at the moment.

This is only anecdotal, but I would imagine they aren’t the only ones.

DB was a primary teacher. The 'old' system of primary teacher training was 'teaching practice' where students had other times in schools but did a six week block placement of being in a school full time annually. First years did small amounts of supported lessons, by the fourth year a student was accountable for teaching a class, alone, for 6 weeks, for 80+% of the time. Apparently that fairly quickly sorted the sheep from the goats, but the feeling was that it needed to be established who could hack it - including the long hours of paperwork involved - and who couldn't.

There were still some drop outs in his NQT year as the training was all about classroom management, teaching and the children, and led them to believe that education was child centred. They never got exposed to all the other stuff of working with parents, curriculum and policy development, the endless work on the action plan, the endless meetings, the endless creation of data and getting that out to the right people at the right time, the policy stuff, the moderation stuff, which takes up huge amounts of time on top of teaching children.

Where are we going to put all these classrooms?

there are not enough suitable community buildings, public buildings, empty offices and porta cabins with enough space to do this

There are 8 primary schools and one high school in my area which serve around I guess 25000 people. Even if every available building were used there would still be a massive shortfall of space.

And that's without assessing the health and safety aspects of this (particularly the one about working in a situation with children where there are no other adults with responsibility in the same location).

That's before you consider the number of staff needed to do this. (remember you can just put one person in the church hall with a class of 15 by themselves. There needs to be a minimum of 2 for the protection of staff and pupils)

Also the guidance prevents multiple classes from using the same large hall. It can not be split into multiple classrooms.

If you say 'if the school just' enough times it doesn't change the number of classrooms and teachers available...

@ineedaholidaynow

NQTs are mentored when they first start teaching. We couldn't just throw them all into a "nightingale' school and tell them to get on with it

Not to mention the fact the PGCE training ended in March, rather than June so NQTs starting in September have basically had only about half of the normal training. The expectation is that their schools will provide more support during the NQT year to compensate. So I don't see how they can really be expected to just teach classes with even less support than NQTs normally get, not to mention suggestions that they'll have to teach outside of their specialism too.

Again, who will be expected to plan all of these lessons that supply teachers and those teaching outside of their specialisms are going to teach, according to suggestions on here?

Also, if we fill up any spare outdoor space with a load of portakabins, how the hell are we going to get the kids outside for as much of the time as is being recommended as safer?

And that's before you've prepared the ground for the portakabins where many schools don't have the suitable flat surfaces in enough space, ordered them and had them actually arrive, plumbed in, heating sorted, electricity sorted and set up, furniture bought for them...

The cost and fuss to set one up is enormous, it's not a quick job.

Yep. Nobody is being unhelpful, just realistic about what can be achieved.

Today's planning guide from the DfE stipulates that schools may open this term to further pupils, provided they have capacity and staff, and do not require any additional funding to do so. No village halls, or not this term at any rate. Still no more than 15 per class.